Scots Taffer on 9/1/2011 at 02:23
The woman who would be President, ladies and gentlemen.
june gloom on 9/1/2011 at 02:28
You should be thankful for her. If she hadn't been the VP candidate McCain would've won.
CCCToad on 9/1/2011 at 02:42
Has anyone seen the guy's youtube video yet? One of my relatives who's got 30 years in psychiatry said the guy seems pretty schizophrenic. All I know is that he's nuts.
Quote:
Please, try to hold a discussion without resorting to old standbys like blaming something other than the madman for the madman's crimes.
thats my job. This is all Rush Limbaugh's fault!
Queue on 9/1/2011 at 02:47
Quote Posted by dethtoll
You should be thankful for her. If she hadn't been the VP candidate McCain would've won.
If McCain hadn't abandoned everything he stood for up to that point, in favor of towing the party line, he would have won.
Quote Posted by CCCToad
One of my relatives who's got 30 years in psychiatry said the guy seems pretty schizophrenic.
Gee, what tipped her off?
Volitions Advocate on 9/1/2011 at 02:50
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Yes, because the availability of guns is not related to people using them no not at all.
I'm just bored of getting news from countries with liberal gun laws about people suddenly deciding to go on the rampage with guns.
(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland)
I'd feel quite safe living there.
CCCToad on 9/1/2011 at 02:58
Reciting tired old examples again are we?
I much prefer Michael Moore's example of Canada.
Queue on 9/1/2011 at 02:59
I think everyone knows by now that I'm much more left than right (or, as dethtoll would say, I'm never right), but I have to admit that I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. It's not that I like the idea, but I have to be honest with the fact that I'm living in a society of guns, and that there are plenty of nuts here that'd be more than happy to pop a cap in my face then fuck the hole. I wish this weren't the reality of the society I live in, but, we are a society full of violence and violent people.
Unfortunately, we can't get rid of the guns. Too many people have them, and too many people are willing to use them.
Muzman on 9/1/2011 at 03:05
Quote Posted by gunsmoke
I haven't had cause to check since '08, and it wouldn't matter anyway. It would mean that as recent as a couple years ago, they were freely available so most people who want one already have one. At the very least the country has a nice used supply for the black market that didn't have to be smuggled either.
Before I start I should point out that, from what I know about it, I don't think this incident really has much to do with gun ownership and availability in general and picking on the outlier nutter cases just muddies the argument. The political angle is more interesting since a lot of the 'tea party' seem to sincerely believe complete nonsense, but they
do believe it so sincerely and these things are so monstrous that if they were true someone would
have to do something extreme about it eventually. So many politicians and media people feeling that its ok to trade on this stuff and whip it up for their own ends makes separating them from some responsibility complicated, even to the most hardline 'personal responsibility!' mavens I would think.
But anyway: Yeah when new products come out they take a little while to be added to the banned list, but just how big do you think the demand for this stuff is? Thousands of psychos poring over Crossbow Monthly waiting for just the right thing? They call it the black market because its illegal. If you don't know where it is you can't get it and the risks in dealing this sort of thing push up the price a lot. You'd have to first know it exists and then be pretty determined in order to get one. Of course, how determined one is can be changed by the obstacles and risks placed in the way.
The problem in these debates is that Americans, particularly gun fans, don't know what it's like to live in a place that's not completely awash with firearms and people who want them. They stand in the sporting goods section of Walmart or wherever and say "Apart from my rights and having no desire to control this stuff, how could you even begin to control -this- anyway?". This is understandable given the local situation generally. But never for a minute think that gun control doesn't or can't work. It can and does. There are numerous countries that are living proof. If you think you can't generally stop guns getting into a community you're wrong. If you think having reduced amounts of guns and other serious weapons in the community won't reduce violent crime and make the place safer, you're wrong. If you think changing the kind of weapons generally available to criminals won't alter the game as far as general criminal and police behaviour goes, still wrong.
It's complex and very particular to a given situation. Guns are never going to be the only factor one way or the other. But if the illusion of added personal safety in concealed carry is really important to you, well fine. Nobody should weigh this against the notion that the alternative just won't work or would leave law abiding citizens defenseless or other such stuff though.
june gloom on 9/1/2011 at 03:15
There are US cities that have implemented various gun laws of some form or another. In each of these cities, crime rate- guns included- proceeded to go through the fucking roof.
It's all very well and good to sit in Australia or England or wherever and harrumph and generally pontificate about what barbarians we are because we haven't all melted down our guns to use as dildos or whatever, and never have to actually think about what you're saying because you're not being paid to do research on the issue nor have you actually been to the US (I'm speaking in general terms, not just you, Muz ;)) but the important thing you have to consider between smug grins and snifters of brandy is that the US is a fairly special case, and that most gun laws tend to do more harm than good here. Though I like to think that's because nobody's actually been able to come up with a reasonable one. It tends to be all-or-nothing in this country, I'm afraid, and that's only gotten worse the last couple decades.
Muzman on 9/1/2011 at 04:02
Quote Posted by dethtoll
It's all very well and good to sit in Australia or England or wherever and harrumph and generally pontificate about what barbarians we are
Winky not withstanding, I hope its reasonably clear to anyone strolling by that's not what I'm doing.
