the_grip on 12/1/2011 at 16:01
Quote Posted by BEAR
I think a lot of people on the left simply see this as the culmination of ever rising anger on the right, less a straight up cause and effect relationship. It may prove to be more or less cause/effect than we think, but with the climate as it is, it still felt inevitable.
I think most people probably just think this was the work of a crazy person, not necessarily angry rhetoric. However, it has triggered a platform to discuss toning down rhetoric... a good thing in my book. I don't think this guy is the product of angry talk shows and conservative news shows (more likely the product of genetics), and this isn't the first shooting this country has seen like this.
I do think though that this country could stand for some toning down in terms of the political trash that is spewed everywhere. In my mind it is an sign of increasing "dumbing down" of the population.
Pyrian on 12/1/2011 at 16:17
The guy appears to be paranoid schizophrenic. Without medication, it would seem that he was kind of a time bomb, sooner or later something would set him off on a rampage. The fact that his target was political as opposed to the once-popular school shooting strikes me as being a likely product of the times. Disproving such an assertion, however, is very difficult (and clear evidence of it has not been forthcoming). Still, when certain consequences are predicted and then subsequently occur, my initial empiric sympathy is with the predictive value.
BEAR on 12/1/2011 at 16:56
Quote Posted by the_grip
I think most people probably just think this was the work of a crazy person, not necessarily angry rhetoric. However, it has triggered a platform to discuss toning down rhetoric... a good thing in my book. I don't think this guy is the product of angry talk shows and conservative news shows (more likely the product of genetics), and this isn't the first shooting this country has seen like this.
I agree, that's certainly what it looks like now. I think that rhetoric caused a lot of people (myself included) to make that connection before enough information was known. Regardless if it was a contributing factor, I hope it is a wake up call and I hope it lasts (though I don't expect it to).
demagogue on 12/1/2011 at 17:48
That said, an insanity or mental illness defense is going to be a very hard sell, I think. He was premeditating and planning this literally years in advance and was more or less explicit about his motivations in his writings, which if nothing else shows that he was very much aware of the significance and consequences of his actions and it wasn't a momentary lapse in control. He knew he wanted to commit a political assassination for that reason.
He had problems controlling his emotion it seems, and his political rage was anything but coherent and rational, but he wasn't so far gone as to be out of touch with reality or moral understanding. (There are different tests for different jurisdictions, but I don't think he would meet any of them.) It's the sustained premeditation of it that strikes me anyway; he mulled it over a long time, not always in a crazed state (not sure about that, though).
Edit: Of course I'd want to read up on paranoid schizophrenia if I were actually on the case. I understand a delusion could be sustained a long time for people with that condition. But I'm not sure this amounts to being completely delusional. I'd want to know what an evaluator says after testing him, anyway.
the_grip on 12/1/2011 at 17:56
Quote Posted by BEAR
I hope it is a wake up call and I hope it lasts (though I don't expect it to).
Me too... unfortunately, nice rhetoric and the like doesn't sell on the news. We keep Fox News on at work with the volume off on several TVs, and it is interesting to see how so much of it is geared to provoke emotion... readily apparent when you can't hear what they are saying.
demagogue, you could be right... the dude is still insane, but his actions may not qualify for an insanity plea.
Stitch on 12/1/2011 at 18:51
I supposed I was unrealistic in hoping her reply would be along the lines of "whoa, we obviously didn't intend to inspire anything like this and ultimately this guy is just deranged but we'll dial things back a bit now nonetheless."
Kolya on 12/1/2011 at 20:19
Quote Posted by http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12174448
While some US legislators have called for stricter gun control in the wake of Saturday's shooting, Rep Trent Franks said: "I wish there was one more gun that day in the hands of a responsible person."
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Quote Posted by Alien vs. Predator Requiem
People are dying here! We need more guns!
Queue on 12/1/2011 at 21:10
Quote:
... Rep Trent Franks said: "I wish there was one more gun that day in the hands of a responsible person."
Whose to say who's "responsible"? Is there a special Bureau of Responsibility where these people are getting certified that I don't know about? What a fucking stupid statement.
I have a gun, and I sure as hell wouldn't trust me in public with the damned thing.
