rachel on 25/12/2015 at 23:15
I figure he figured the same tactics worked before, and would work again, and the Max Von Sidow character was kinda charged with protecting her from a distance. I don't really know. It's a stretch, but if she's related at all with anyone from the "old guard", that's my take. But as I said, I'm pretty curious to see what's going to happen there in terms of lineage.
I'm really split on Evil Dude<sup>TM</sup> Snoke. The name is ridiculous and Darth Gollum is a bit meh, but I don't feel we have enough info to really make even an educated guess on that guy...
By the way, is KotOR non-canon now lik the rest of the EU? Because there were quite a few call backs to KotOR-style stuff sprinkled around. That was interesting.
Manwe on 25/12/2015 at 23:42
Went to see it with my brother. It's a really well done movie, visually I mean, with nice cinematography, great practical effects, actual sets/props/costumes, great new actors, cool action set pieces, the right dose of humor, etc... But ultimately it's a pointless effort, since pretty much every scene, situation, character, or line of dialogue is taken straight from the original. We both came out really disappointed to be honest. There is absolutely no point in seeing this movie if you have seen the original. Maybe it was intended for newer audiences? I don't know but it was all really predictable, there were barely any surprises, no twist, nothing really new or fresh. It was just by the numbers. Like they just had a checklist of things to put in the movie and they checked all of the boxes.
Everybody knew beforehand Kylo Ren was related to either Leia or Luke, and it's pretty much revealed early on. Pretty much everyone knew Han was going to die, and it was heavily foreboded anyway. The two Asian dudes from the Raid appeared only for a few seconds, their potential was entirely wasted. And finally the last straw for me: Luke having only a 15 sec appearance in the last shot... I guess that's why he didn't appear in the trailers: because he wasn't in the fucking movie.
A few things I did like: the reveal of the Millenium Falcon, which was a really cool "oh no they didn't" moment, and the reveal of Kylo Ren's face.
What I didn't like:
-John Boyega's character, finn. I feel like his story arc should have lasted the whole movie, instead of changing sides from the beginning. I still have no idea where he came from, why he's not a clone, and why he suddenly had a change of heart. I mean I know it's explained with a few throwaway lines but it's just not believable. I think his character would have made more sense as a random dude recently stranded on Jakku and getting involved with Rey. I don't see what his belonging to the stormtroopers brings to the movie. Except to conveniently move the plot forward.
-The fake expository dialogue between Leia and Han. "Oh we're talking to each other about things that happened in the past and are completely obvious to us but need to be spelled out to the audience to bring them up to speed". How can that shit be in a movie of this caliber. I know it's aimed at the masses but come on, this is one of the most basic cinema rule.
-Simon Pegg's talent was wasted I felt. I had to look up which role he played. Was his character supposed to be funny? It certainly didn't transpire in the French version.
-Yet another Death Star? Only, the size of a planet this time? Come on. And they destroy it like it's nothing, with a couple of x-wings ? Really undermines the supposed threat it represents. I always felt that adding a second Death Star in Return of the Jedi was a mistake. Like the empire can just churn out those things by the dozen. What next, a Death Star the size of a sun that can destroy entire galaxies?
-The evolution of Rey from random nobody to super-powered Light-saber-wielding Jedi badass over the course of a movie. It's kinda ridiculous how she kicked Kylo's ass (if he survived I'm pretty sure he's forever discredited as being the biggest pansy in the whole galaxy, not sure how they can salvage his character). I guess she's related to Luke somehow? Seeing as she's a naturally gifted pilot and all.
-Captain Phasmas: I have no idea what the point of that character was. Maybe if she survived they can recycle her character for the sequels.
-The Nazi imagery: it's been done to death and is kind of a silly cliché at this point.
rachel on 26/12/2015 at 00:18
Funny, I thought the whole Luke thing was very well done. For a second, I even thought he wouldn't even appear and I was totally okay with that. But the last 10 seconds... wow, entire dialogs' worth in that thousand yard stare...
Jason Moyer on 26/12/2015 at 02:21
Quote Posted by Manwe
why he's not a clone
Because stormtroopers aren't clones and never were.
Scots Taffer on 26/12/2015 at 10:53
There's a theory that Snope is Darth Plagueis, Palpatine's Master.
A possible reason Rey may have been deposited on a planet far, far away by her Jedi father (Luke) might be linked to his disappearance - the age difference between Rey and Ben, if there is one, would maybe be 5 years max? I don't see how the Solo twins theory makes ANY sense at all. Though for me, none of these events sync up meaningfully and is part of my grumble about the plot being incomprehensible... how old was Ben when he turned on Luke and went to the Dark side? How long has Luke actually been missing? They mentioned a Jedi temple, but what of it?
The fact that Kylo is still so junior seeming in terms of his abilities may be down to his "struggle" which has one very popular theory that it was down to Luke and Ben deciding to destroy the Sith once and for all (perhaps when Snope came to power) and that Ben/Kylo is "undercover" Jedi as a Sith... and this is why killing Han was the thing he "had to do"...
I wish I could say the theories give me any sense of buzz for the next instalment, but at this stage I'm left feeling like I do after chomping on popcorn. Decent sugar buzz but now if I've got crap between my teeth and I need to wash my mouth out.
Tomi on 26/12/2015 at 12:10
Quote Posted by zombe
I always hated the bumbling bots in the 4-6 and that stuff has not aged well.
Heh, the "bumbling bots" were always my favourite characters after Han Solo and Darth Vader, so I was happy to see them back in the new film. Some of the other characters could have stayed away... In general, I thought that there were perhaps a bit too many references to the original trilogy.
Quote Posted by raph
The most important thing I took out of the movie is that Star Wars was FUN again. Great banter, great chemistry, lots of really really fun moments not just in dialogue (Finn's bro moment with BB8) but also in reveals (the Falcon! YEAHHH).
Yeah, well said. I liked the subtle humour in it. The bro moment that you mentioned was one of the highlights in the whole movie. :D
Quote:
As I said before, disappointed in Phasma. Sorta disappointed at first with Kylo Ren but the more I think of it, the more I come to change my mind about it. Adam Driver's done a great job and he's pretty much giving us the Anakin Skywalker we expected in the prequel trilogy: a troubled, doubting young man pulled by both sides and not knowing which way to go, but pretending to be all evil badass.
Phasma seemed a bit pointless to me too, I think that there should have been some kind of a confrontation between Finn and her later on in the movie. The problem with Kylo is that we haven't really seen his good side and don't know much about him anyway. He's not a very
cool villain for sure, I found him to be more annoying than threatening or dangerous. When he gets beaten by a young girl who hasn't even heard of the Force before, it's just very hard to believe that this guy could be a big threat for the galaxy. There's potential in him though, but he needs to grow up a bit before Episode VIII.
Quote Posted by raph
Funny, I thought the whole Luke thing was very well done. For a second, I even thought he wouldn't even appear and I was totally okay with that. But the last 10 seconds... wow, entire dialogs' worth in that thousand yard stare...
It was a pretty good scene, but the "finding Luke" part could have been left for the beginning of the next film in my opinion. The cliffhanger at the end of Empire Strikes Back never bothered me because I hadn't even been born yet when the film came out, but now I'm going to have to wait for two (?) more years to find out what happens next. Maybe they'll skip the whole Jedi training business in the next film or keep it quite minimal to avoid further clashes with the OT plot.
As for Luke being Rey's father... oh please, no. :p The whole
"I am your father" thing has been done too many times already and it'd be just silly, unimaginative and too predictable.
rachel on 26/12/2015 at 13:41
Quote Posted by Tomi
It was a pretty good scene, but the "finding Luke" part could have been left for the beginning of the next film in my opinion. The cliffhanger at the end of Empire Strikes Back never bothered me because I hadn't even been born yet when the film came out, but now I'm going to have to wait for two (?) more years to find out what happens next. Maybe they'll skip the whole Jedi training business in the next film or keep it quite minimal to avoid further clashes with the OT plot.
It
did feel a bit rushed as it was, true. With both Rey and Kylo training with their respective masters, we'll see what the next episodes bring. I give Abrams & Co a pass for making a soft reboot out of Ep. VII, since it was such a daunting task to take over the SW universe, but I do expect the next one to be more original, that's for sure.
Quote Posted by Tomi
As for Luke being Rey's father... oh please, no. :p The whole
"I am your father" thing has been done too many times already and it'd be just silly, unimaginative and too predictable.
Yeah, I don't know how that will play out. It is like many things only a theory at this point so maybe they'll surprise us. Maybe it's Palpatine's daughter! :ebil:
Sulphur on 26/12/2015 at 16:11
Okay, look. When Kylo took off his mask, my first thought was, wait a fucking minute, they made Adam from Girls the fucking villain!? I couldn't help but wonder if the next thing he was going to do was pee on Rey in the shower.
Anyway. Despite its running length, this felt like half a movie. I liked the half that was there, but the third act felt like it was hurried along to provide some more development for Episode VIII. Not great, but not terrible either - I didn't feel like I was watching Lucas filming himself splooge all over a greenscreen, which was a plus. I actually liked some of the goofy nostalgia in there too, because apart from Finn this movie needed to find a sense of humour. Dark is great and all, but without character and humour to contrast it, shit's going to look underdeveloped.
What wasn't underdeveloped was the cinematography - the first ten minutes made great use of 3D to paint scale and perspective, giving some shots a magnificently painterly look. Unfortunately, once the action started it never quite returns to taking a breath to let us take the scale of the scenery in, but everything's more or less well-framed and gorgeously shot.
Also, the best part of the movie is BB-8. Finally, we have a droid that's not annoying. I'm a bit ashamed to admit this, but I didn't want to see anything happen to it after I heard its goddamn adorable little droid warble. I think it woke up a paternal side in me I didn't think I had. Sure, it's annoying at times too, but we're talking about a fucking soup bowl balanced on a fucking soccer ball, and they managed to give it actual character somehow. I was actually more worried about BB-8 than I was about anybody else in the movie, and I breathed a sigh of relief when nothing terrible happened to it by the end. Now that's some magical shit.
SubJeff on 27/12/2015 at 11:08
It was better than I expected it to be if I'm honest. I was really optimistic for a while but in the days after I booked the tickets I remembered the prequels more and more and though it'd be pretty bad.
It did feel like history repeating itself but that was only immediately apparent thanks to Vivian on FB. Looked great this time, much more like the original trilogy spruced up and not the garish CGI of the prequels. The performances were all pretty good except that little orange alien on the Astec planet. I just don't like all the aliens; it's like a "how many different types can we cram in this time?" scene up in there.
When Kylo Ren took off his helmet I almost laughed. Young Maryln Manson! I should have known! And I'm not 14 or a girl so I've never seen him in anything before. But then he turned out to be the most interesting character in the whole thing. His struggle with his Dark Side faith is a really cool aspect of the whole thing, as was his Vader worship and general failure to be as totally badass as he is clearly going to be. The bit where he held the blaster bolt in mid air was great. His helmet and outfit is far, far cooler than Vader's and his lightsaber was fucking brilliant. We saw it in the trailer but the instability of it was boss.
Funny thing I read on Reddit - "Star Wars has taught me that if you don't kill your son at birth you're fucked." Lol
Rey was a really strong lead. That actress owned the role, even though she was a little too perfect all the time. Finn was pretty good too and I guess he's the new Han Solo now or something. I can't see what other role he'll have in future. Apart from getting it on with Rey.
It's a shame that is was so much like a remake in so many ways.
Thoughts on the futureRey is defo Luke's daughter though who the hell is the mother?
Kylo will become much, much harder in the next ones. I hope we get some force lightning.
We'll find out this Snopes, Snoop, Gollum, whatever guy is really little.
Phasma (whatever) will have a bigger role. She's the budget Boba Fett, no?
Finally - one aspect of this that really jars with me is the fact that everything done in Ep 4-6 was for nothing. Han is still a wideboy, The First Order/Empire is still massively powerful, there is still a Rebel Alliance/Resistance. WTF changed? What was it all for? The trailers made it look like the First Order was just a remnant - I thought they would essentially be rebels, not the other way around, again.
Quote:
Because stormtroopers aren't clones and never were.
That doesn't seem quite true now, does it?
Leaving aside any extended universe nonsense from the books or comics or cartoons or whatever, in the prequels we're lead to believe that Stormtroopers are all Jango Fett clones (which was one of the only cool things about those horrible films).
And in this new one Kylo has a go General Hux for not using clones at one point so presumably they do use clones.
Dia on 27/12/2015 at 12:42
Quote Posted by SubJeff
When Kylo Ren took off his helmet I almost laughed. Young Maryln Manson! I should have known! And I'm not 14 or a girl so I've never seen him in anything before. But then he turned out to be the most interesting character in the whole thing.
I disagree; I found Ren to be the biggest disappointment of the whole film (well, tied with Snoke, anyway), especially after all the hype and photos showing him with his bad-assed looking lightsaber. In retrospect, when he removed his helmet I wouldn't have been surprised to hear a twanging sound as his nose popped out. His over-the-top Goth emo teen angst made him seem like nothing more than a caricature to me. When Ren got his ass handed to him on a platter by a young woman who knew nothing about fighting with a lightsaber I kinda expected him to burst into tears and start emoting all over the place. He was more pathetic than interesting, imo.
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Rey is defo Luke's daughter .....
Not necessarily. Anakin was the product of those darned little midichlorians and had no biological father, afterall (well, according to his mother). So it wouldn't be a stretch for Rey to have been conceived in the same manner. Just sayin'.
