henke on 20/12/2015 at 10:43
Good initiative, Pyrian! I was about to make a thread like this myself this morning, having seen the movie last night.
Yes it was indeed striking how much of the plot resembled A New Hope. It felt like they played it safe, which makes sense seeing how much hinges on this movie being a success. At the same time though, it was interesting to see how the plot makes different choices in a few areas. Like Rey being so instantly powerful that Kylo Ren isn't that much of a threat anymore. He's no Darth Vader, and it's killing him. It's gonna be interesting seeing how his character progresses, and it's cool for once to see a Sith struggling with his faith. I didn't think that was even a thing.
There were a few too many references to the old movies. Trash compactor!? *WINKNUDGE* And Han was really cheesy, but then I remembered that Han was always a pretty cheesy guy, so I guess that's ok. Still, a few things bugged me. Like how Han is so amazed with Chewie's rifle. You're telling me these two have been having space adventures together their whole lives and Han has never fired Chewie's rifle before?
About the ending. I really thought they were setting it up so the next movie would be all about the search for Luke Skywalker. Perhaps the map wasn't as complete as it looked, and Rey was gonna have to go on an epic space adventure to find him. Surprising to see that part skipped completely, but I guess ol' JJ has a cool idea for a sequel in mind already. I think the next movie will be allowed to be it's own thing much more than this one.
Surprisingly great performance of the movie: Domhnall Gleeson as the First Order general! I've only seen him in the movie Frank before, where he was good, but nothing special. He was great in this though, and really embodied the righteous anger of the Dark Side(in a non-religious way). In that speech he holds just before they fire the Star Killer he's just bristling with angry energy. It's over-the-top, but completely appropriate, and so fun to watch.
But yes, overall a very good movie, and a worthy follow up to some of the best sci-fi/fantasy movies ever made.
Scots Taffer on 20/12/2015 at 13:36
God I thought Domnhall Gleeson's Hux and all scenes with the First Order and Snoke were the worst parts of the movie.
Ostriig on 20/12/2015 at 14:13
A few points:
- A bit too reliant on nostalgia with all the references, and a bit too much goofiness in the first part of the movie.
- Pacing felt rather off. Episode 4 felt a bit rushed too, but this went a tad beyond that.
- Darth Vader Jr. Jr. is all whiny and even pathetic at times, would do better as a villain in a Harry Potter movie. I did sort of like that they took the mask off and he's just an average guy underneath, a nice change of pace, but everything else about him works against him being an intimidating presence. Which leaves... what? The giant sun compressor? Stormtroopers still can't hit anything and the First Order come across as a cardboard cutout of a menace.
- Starfucker base. Ok, I know Star Wars is sword & sorcery
in space, but huh? More nitpicking than I care to list on that one.
- Agreed with Brethren on "plug and play lightsabers." Sure, it's just a
thing with an On/Off button, anyone can
use it, but I thought it needed
some fencing training. Finn sparring with a Stormtrooper I can get behind, it would appear they get some mellee training, but Rey beating Kylo Ren like that? Great, the antagonist's even less of a badass.
- Franchises need to learn to let go. Not the Princess Leia I remember, and even Han Solo, it's like, dude, everyone grows old, no shame in looking for a nice quiet place on Coruscant. No need to keep bringing back the same characters over and over, and then make all the new protagonists blood relatives of the old ones on top of it, it's like you're grasping for "legitimacy" of some sort.
Quote Posted by Brethren
And why is he being projected as 50 feet tall? Is he really that tall? That part was strange.
It
did feel very off, but on reflection, wasn't the Emperor in the original trilogy projected not-to-scale in his Skype sessions with Vader?
I only listed my main point of whinging here. The movie was fine, it was pretty to look at, had some good moments and kept me engaged most of the time. I enjoyed it, just didn't feel it was the great "triumph" that kept getting hailed on the news. I don't think it's an age thing, I thought the new Mad Max this year was damn amazing. Not The Road Warrior, but still awesome.
Tomi on 20/12/2015 at 16:32
Ah, I finally saw the new Star Wars today, so at last I can browse the internet without having to worry about bumping into spoilers
everywhere. I agree with most of what has been said in here already.
Quote Posted by Brethren
it definitely felt like Star Wars movie.
I agree with everything else that you say, but I'm not so sure about this. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the film, but despite of the obvious lightsaber duels and TIE fighters and X-Wings and old characters (etc) there was
something missing. I don't know, maybe it's because the film was so serious most of the time. Or maybe it's because there weren't as many non-human creatures and alien stuff as in all the previous films. I think I like Abrams's style in general though.
Quote Posted by Ostriig
a bit too much goofiness in the first part of the movie.
Too much? Nah. Not enough, I'd say! Or perhaps just the right amount of goofiness. Whereas the prequels tried way too hard to be funny, this one seemed quite serious and dark to me. Finn is a funny character though, I like him.
Quote Posted by icemann
My gut feeling is that he [Han Solo] didn't die. Luke fell from a very large way up and survived (Empire Strikes Back) remember.
I was really sad to see Han Solo die, but in a way I think it'd be very lame if he somehow survived this. It would make the new Star Wars trilogy seem even more like some soap opera where everyone's related to each other in some way and characters coming back from dead is perfectly normal. I found the whole death scene a bit disappointing to be honest. Han Solo is one of the most loved and recognisable movie characters of all time, so they could have made it a lot more emotional and dramatic, or at least memorable.
Quote:
The CGI characters are quite hit and miss style stuff. Some are excellent. Others are horrible.
Hmm. I can't say that I noticed any horrible CGI. Can you remember any examples? I was happy that they hadn't plastered the CGI all over the place like in Ep I-III just for the sake of it, and I thought that it was very well done too.
Quote:
The attack on the Star Killer lacked any tension at all.
I agree, it was a bit of an anti-climax. I was expecting a truly epic battle, but it all seemed to be quite easy and happened very quickly.
Quote Posted by Brethren
Other things that didn't work - Kylo Ren's temper tantrums (I think that was supposed to be funny)
In my opinion Kylo Ren didn't work very well as a character at all. A movie like this needs a much more convincing bad guy, and Kylo Ren was just way too tame and quite disappointing at that. He's obviously trying to be Darth Vader II, but he's nowhere as
cool as Darth Vader in the originals, or even as menacing as bad Anakin/Vader in Ep III. I hope that he'll "grow up" before Ep VIII and doesn't turn to the light side in the end.
All in all, I enjoyed the new film, I just have a feeling that Abrams tried to play it
a bit too safe with this one. There are a bit too many similarities to the old trilogy and nothing truly new or original, which is a shame.
One final thought: What kind of a stupid name is Snoke?
Snoke. That's a fitting name for some annoying little troll, but it just sounds too silly for someone who's probably supposed to be the most evil creature in the universe. :D
Pyrian on 20/12/2015 at 16:41
When we finally meet Snoke in the flesh he's probably going to be like 6 inches tall or something.
redface on 20/12/2015 at 22:44
I expected this to be better in every way, considering how just about every reviewer cried how amazing it is. The movie felt "Disneyfied" to me, tame, it lacked the dark atmosphere from OT. The script could have been less predictable. Even the action and direction seemed kind of boring, surprisingly for JJ. And the one major character that dies in the movie had to be f***ing Han Solo?
Tomi on 20/12/2015 at 23:10
Quote Posted by redface
it lacked the dark atmosphere from OT.
Hmm. If anything, I thought that
The Force Awakens was even darker than the originals. The originals feel much more "fairytale-like" to me with all the different locations and weird/cute creatures, whereas this new one seems much more serious and violent. (I'm not saying that it's a bad thing - I haven't made up my mind yet!) It's quite interesting actually, because I would have expected the complete opposite after the Disney takeover.
Dia on 21/12/2015 at 14:00
Quote Posted by icemann
My gut feeling is that he didn't die. Luke fell from a very large way up and survived (Empire Strikes Back) remember.
During the scene where Ren/Ben impales his dad with the lightsaber beam, it sure looks like Ren pulls the lightsaber upwards as though to make sure it does as much damage as possible while it's impaling Han. I kinda doubt anyone could survive that kind of gutting. I got the distinct impression (from past interviews) Harrison Ford was more than ready to have Solo die; guess he's pretty much done with that character. So it looks like Han is gone for good. Sad and depressing, imo. But hey! We still have the Millennium Falcon! And Chewbacca! (And I have to say I totally enjoyed watching Chewie go berserk upon realizing that Han was dead!)
Though I basically enjoyed the movie, I have to say that throughout a lot of it I felt like I was experiencing deja vu. It seemed that overall it was a rip-off of A New Hope and I ended up feeling rather disappointed; I expected something more original. Another disappointment was Kylo Ren, who seemed more like a rebellious Goth teen with far too much emo and angst; an almost ineffectual Sith Lord wannabe who was not as much of a nemesis as he was just a plain screwed up kid. At least with Anakin we got to see the slow progression of his turn to the Dark Side; the death of his mother was pivotal in that progression and Palpatine's influence was strong and obvious. But with Ren/Ben's conversion there's very little explanation as to why, so he just comes off as a rebellious youth who glorifies (and tries to imitate) his late grandfather's life as a Sith Lord.
Also, Rey's progression in the ability to use the Force seemed just as rushed as Luke's was in A New Hope, though I don't remember Luke having any 'visions' when he touched his father's lightsaber. So who is Rey, anyhow? She's obviously stronger in the Force than even Vader's own grandson; another intervention by those darned little midichlorians, perhaps? Or maybe the result of some hapless female's one-night stand with Luke, years before? I know that question will most likely be answered in the next movie (or the 3rd ..... er, um, 9th?), and I do have to say that I rather enjoyed that little bit of mystery, especially since by that time I already felt like I was watching a reboot of A New Hope. A really, really good one, but a reboot nonetheless.
I was also more than curious to know how the Dark Side regained control, especially after Return of the Jedi made it seem as though with the death of Palpatine, the Empire (and the Dark Side) was pretty much crushed. Face it; Kylo Ren is NO Darth Vader and way too young to have been instrumental in actually helping to create The First Order, so how did this Supreme Leader Snoke guy come to have so much power?
Guess like everybody else I'll just have to wait another year or two before I get any answers. I'm just hoping that the remaining two episodes aren't going to be blatant rip-offs of episodes V & VI.
At least we still have Chewie and the Millennium Falcon.
heywood on 21/12/2015 at 17:47
Quote Posted by Tomi
Hmm. If anything, I thought that
The Force Awakens was even darker than the originals. The originals feel much more "fairytale-like" to me with all the different locations and weird/cute creatures, whereas this new one seems much more serious and violent. (I'm not saying that it's a bad thing - I haven't made up my mind yet!) It's quite interesting actually, because I would have expected the complete opposite after the Disney takeover.
ESB was the favorite of the fans and critics, and it was the darkest of the 6 films so far, so I'm not surprised they started out this way. It particularly contrasts with the way Lucas started out the prequels. Lucas was quite obviously appealing to kids, hoping to build a new generation of fans, and it didn't work out. Seems like the priority is on trying to recapture the old fan base this time.
Quote Posted by Dia
During the scene where Ren/Ben impales his dad with the lightsaber beam, it sure looks like Ren pulls the lightsaber upwards as though to make sure it does as much damage as possible while it's impaling Han. I kinda doubt anyone could survive that kind of gutting. I got the distinct impression (from past interviews) Harrison Ford was more than ready to have Solo die; guess he's pretty much done with that character. So it looks like Han is gone for good. Sad and depressing, imo. But hey! We still have the Millennium Falcon! And Chewbacca! (And I have to say I totally enjoyed watching Chewie go berserk upon realizing that Han was dead!)
I was expecting Han to die. Going in, I thought they might just eliminate the whole original cast. I was not expecting the story to use Luke as a MacGuffin, which suggests he's going to have a larger role in the next film.
Quote:
I was also more than curious to know how the Dark Side regained control, especially after Return of the Jedi made it seem as though with the death of Palpatine, the Empire (and the Dark Side) was pretty much crushed. Face it; Kylo Ren is NO Darth Vader and way too young to have been instrumental in actually helping to create The First Order, so how did this Supreme Leader Snoke guy come to have so much power?
Beats me, but just because Luke took out Vader and Palpatine and the Death Star was destroyed doesn't mean the Empire was crushed. It would have remained a massive military force of loyal clones just waiting for somebody to stand up and take charge.
There is obviously a lot of back story yet to be revealed, which is the only thing really interesting to me about the plot of Force Awakens. Otherwise, as you and others have said, it ripped off Ep 4. And a lot of what wasn't a rip off was non-sensical.
I think Abrams did a pretty good job with the cinematography. It looks a lot better than the prequels or his own Trek films. Too bad the screenwriting wasn't better. Larry Kasdan disappointed me.
icemann on 21/12/2015 at 17:56
Quote Posted by Tomi
Hmm. I can't say that I noticed any horrible CGI. Can you remember any examples? I was happy that they hadn't plastered the CGI all over the place like in Ep I-III just for the sake of it, and I thought that it was very well done too.
Two that immediately spring to mind: Snoke/Golem and the Alien on the desert planet that Rey went in to hand in scrap to for what looked like food payments. Snoke was passable, but the other one was just really really bad CGI.
Tomi: Totally agree on this one being far darker than the others. It did have some good laughs in there too though, which is a nice return (seeing as the prequels had next to no humor in them).
One thing I promised myself this time around (when I went to go see the movie) was to not let my love for the original trilogy get the better of me, and let it cloud my judgement of the movie. I clearly remember coming out of Phantom Menace and being all "zomg that was great". Then a while later realizing it was just really average, but had great light sabre battles + music. So this time around, I did my best to just see this one as it was.
That said, seeing Solo and Chewy again. Common. Hard not to be really happy to see them.
C3-PO and R2 we'd seen all through the prequels so I was more meh about seeing them again.
Also of note to the person who mentioned about how light sabres shouldn't be useable by just anyone. If I remember right, Han Solo uses one in ESB on Hoth to open up a Tauntaun in-order to keep Luke warm. So it's not the first time it's happened in the series.
