Pyrian on 3/9/2018 at 20:49
Quote Posted by Starker
The starships are not just a thin disguise for dragons, for example.
Heh. You've got a big flying thing with a powerful weapon, a small secret fatal chink in its armor, and an explicit theme of pride? The Death Star isn't Smaug, but...not for lack of trying.
Starker on 3/9/2018 at 22:28
If a work extensively uses the elements of a genre and places its setting in that genre, then I think it's only fitting to discuss it within that genre. Firefly is rarely discussed together with other westerns, for example, let alone with fantasy.
Gingerbread Man on 3/9/2018 at 22:42
Firefly is absolutely discussed in context with and alongside traditional Western genre films and television. And to address your first point, are you arguing that The Human Centipede is a medical drama? Is Alien a slasher film or a sci-fi? I mean, it might be "fitting"to discuss things in their obvious / overt context, but it isn't always correct, yeah? Titanic isn't a disaster film, Blade Runner is hardly an action movie, and if you can justify calling Star Wars a true science fiction film I'd love to hear how you do it. I'm not even talking about the hair-splitting between hard and soft sci-fi -- there is literally no science in Star Wars that isn't handwaved, not even the pseudo-genetics of Force Sensitivity.
ZylonBane on 3/9/2018 at 22:44
Space opera is a subset of science fiction, not a separate category. It anchors the "soft" end of the SF spectrum, with hard science fiction down at the other end.
Starker on 3/9/2018 at 22:47
Alien is horror, yes. And sci-fi. And I never said Star Wars is a "true science fiction film", whatever that means. I have only argued that it belongs to the science fiction genre, and I would absolutely argue the same for other space operas.
Gingerbread Man on 3/9/2018 at 22:50
You're right, and I'm being a bit of a cock about the spectrum. But still, I think it's pretty obvious that the focus is and has always been on swords and sorcery, knights and princesses, evil tyrants and monsters. If we set Space Opera at one end and (let's not quibble over this one because I'm attempting to anchor the scale in something a lot more "grounded") Cyberpunk or other Technodystopia at the other, maybe that's more appropriate. My main point is that Star Wars cares more about the characters and their relationships than the influence and use / misuse of technology. It's a really GOOD Space Opera, I've always said so. But the setting shouldn't be confused with the genre.
Starker on 3/9/2018 at 22:53
An evil dictator and an empire is not something unique to fantasy. It fits just as well in a sci-fi setting. Also, it's not just swords and sorcery, is it? It's swords and sorcery and guns and spaceships, where guns and spaceships are were far more ubiquitous than the former.
Gingerbread Man on 3/9/2018 at 22:58
Very true. I would argue that in its most reduced state the "Evil Tyrant v Plucky Rebel" trope is fundamental to pretty much every Hero Story regardless of time period or culture (origin AND setting). I'm not even sure what point we're circling. All I know is that Benicio del Toro is a really weird choice for a Star Wars actor. And those Furbies on Planet Luke were just dopey. :D
Starker on 3/9/2018 at 23:03
Well, my original point of contention was that a work can belong in multiple genres and specifically that Star Wars having fantastical elements doesn't mean it cannot be sci-fi.
Gingerbread Man on 3/9/2018 at 23:04
PHEW! Then we are agreed and I can return to drinking beer in the sun on a holiday Monday! \o/
Apologies if my idiot command of the language I require to represent my ideas was inadequate. These things have plagued me since I was a piglet.