Vasquez on 31/10/2012 at 12:15
Quote Posted by demagogue
But so many of the interesting adult movies to me this decade have been almost documentary-like, Syriana, Charlie Wilson's War, Primer
YOU HAVE GROWN UP! :mad: *pitchforks and torches*
Thirith on 31/10/2012 at 12:20
Quote Posted by demagogue
As far as kid's movies go, I'll give credit to Pixar for always having top notch & meaningful stories. But so many of the interesting adult movies to me this decade have been almost documentary-like, Syriana, Charlie Wilson's War, Primer (trying to be "realistic" even when it's fantasy), or The Wire (to take a tv show)... not really inspirational to a higher world, or offering any world view, as just very true to life & not shirking from the world we've got.
Arguably, that in itself is a world view. At least
Syriana is very political and critical, as is
The Wire - these are not *neutral*, even if they can be said to be documentary to some extent. There's a definitey satirical streak to
Charlie Wilson's War, which again isn't neutral.
It's interesting you bring up this kid/adult thing, because as much as I love the original
Star Wars movies and the universe, it does strike me as fairly childish, for want of a better world, with its simplistic morality and its fairytale motifs. And perhaps that sort of epic fictional universe that captures our imagination tends to be more doable if geared towards the child in us. That doesn't need to be bad at all, but I cannot imagine a phenomenon like
Star Wars originating as an IP primarily geared towards adults, even if you might end up being able to tell mature stories within it.
demagogue on 31/10/2012 at 12:30
Quote Posted by Thirith
Arguably, that in itself is a world view. At least
Syriana is very political and critical, as is
The Wire - these are not *neutral*, even if they can be said to be documentary to some extent. There's a definitey satirical streak to
Charlie Wilson's War, which again isn't neutral.
Yes that's what I meant to say. I don't even think actual documentaries are neutral. They're "realist", but that's different from value-neutral, and I agree it's a worldview in itself. That's what I meant -- This is where I'm finding something like a worldview for this decade... Star Wars was like a samurai kind of ethos, discipline, loyalty, and the inner potential of individuals. Syriana & The Wire & Game of Thrones are everything is connected in a circle of cynical realism and you have to protect your own, and knowing the dark truth is your power over it. I guess we can thank 9/11 for it being a rather dim decade, where the realist movies are telling us what the world is like and fantasy/scifi is increasingly completely escapist for its own sake. Actually I could translate the meaning of Disney buying Star Wars into this noble worldview being cashed in for pure escapism.
Thirith on 31/10/2012 at 12:46
You had these sort of stories in the '60s and '70s too, though. Especially '70s cinema was full of paranoia stories. It's probably more that following Star Wars the big producers realised just how much money there was in blockbusters for the whole family, so those were on the rise throughout the '80s and perhaps even '90s. Even in post-9/11 stories like Syriana, The Wire and Game of Thrones are still pretty much the exception, unless you're a pinko leftist HBO whore like myself.
Actually, it might be a bit different with TV, because it's only a fairly recent development that TV is widely seen as a legit medium for more mature fare. But then, TV doesn't lend itself as well to big, epic storytelling of the Star Wars kind, simply because it costs so much more. It'll be interesting to see how the Star Wars TV series handles this.
demagogue on 31/10/2012 at 13:06
Yes, you're agreeing with everything I'm thinking, so it's funny you phrase it like a "counterargument". Yes, this was totally the trend of late 60s-70s, everything in the dark shadow of JFK / Civil Rights / Vietnam / Nixon (in the US anyway)... Yes, this fare is the "exception" of our decade, but it's the *relevant* category (at least I was talking about what movies provide inspiration or a worldview, not which ones are most popular), like movies have been segregated into the "meaningful" and the "escapist", and it's the meaningful exceptions that are the ones giving us a credible worldview for our era, dim as it is; and the escapist majority are just that, escapism with not much meaning or ethos, sort of nihilistic even... Get your thrill, don't think too much about it, and come back next week for the next one (which was also a lot of direct post-war cinema of the 40s-50s too.)
It is interesting the direction tv has taken in the last few years, taking on deeper & more credible themes and practically overshadowing cinema on that. I don't doubt these things swing in cycles, and sometime there will be a resurgence of a kind of inspiring spiritual ethos in film that clicks. But it's not clicking now. I'm not saying it's a perfect theory that explains all movies of the last decade either, just a knee-jerk perception about it.
Thirith on 31/10/2012 at 13:45
Makes you wonder whether something like The West Wing which, while it isn't blind to the realities of the world, is still fundamentally idealistic could work on the big screen. Or perhaps we just need a Frank Capra for the 21st century.
Star Wars has something special, though, and I'm not sure whether any other IP has quite the same kind of magic that Star Wars at least used to have. It's not surprising that the first of the recent series of Lego games was Star Wars - there's just nothing else that is as iconic and as much part of our shared culture.
faetal on 31/10/2012 at 14:43
I will never understand annoyance aimed at sequels / re-boots. Even if it turns out awful, the original films still exist = NO NET LOSS.
Stitch on 31/10/2012 at 15:07
Fett, I love you. You
know I love you.
But that doesn't change the fact that you sound like a 20-year old who had their first bad break up and is convinced that love is forever cruel and pointless.
Quote Posted by fett
How exactly are those sequels going to work though? Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher at 70 trying to reprise roles (which neither of them will do). A whole new story set in that universe? It would have to be awfully compelling to square with a universe that spawned some of the most beloved sci-fi/fantasy characters of all time.
As a fan of the extended universe, nobody should understand more than you the appeal of new stories set in the Star Wars universe. There is no reason "the story of the next generation" wouldn't resonate with the public.
Quote Posted by fett
As for the Blu-Ray, I've seen these movies a million times. Am I really going to go ga-ga over yet another version just because it's on Blu-Ray? I might watch it once. Not worth it to potentially have what was once a great story cocked up by the same team that made Speed Racer or whateverthehell.
First off, my man Fafhrd covered how wrong your last sentence is, including the fact that Speed Racer is actually awesome (which is slowly starting to be realized by the very film opinion establishment that originally rejected it).
And shitting on Disney is stupid, because there really isn't a better example right now of an entertainment company that has its shit together. They lost their way pretty severely for awhile there, yeah, but Eisner is long gone and Disney has their mojo back.
But as for the rerelease of the original trilogy--which is totally now going to happen at some point, regardless of hurdles--it isn't really about whether or not you would buy them or watch them. A rerelease of the original trilogies would be a crucial step in correcting the now-tarnished Star Wars legacy. Imagine returning to a world in which Han always shoots first, and conflicting versions are available but largely ignored as fringe manifestations of a misguided man's delusions. Imagine having the films as you grew up with readily available for future generations.
The original trilogy has steered away from being the movies we once fell in love with, and there is now the opportunity to steer them back.
Quote Posted by fett
And that demographic that actually gives a shit about the books? They manage to put almost every single one that's released in the NYT Bestseller list for about 20 years running. It's a substantial group in terms of support and money. It's not that the franchise can't survive without them, because the masses will go see anything with Star Wars plastered on it. But they're largely the group that continued to buy merchandise and clamor for new movies during the 80's and 90's and Lucas has regularly disregarded and disrespected that. This feels like more of the same. I guess I can see the gain in him not being able to fuck with it anymore, but it will likely just become another insipid movie franchise rather than being held apart as the cultural phenomenon it was/is.
I really think you're relentlessly focused on
right now as opposed to what could happen in the future. You guys fell in love with the original trilogy and have had to deal with Lucas aggressively pissing all over everything, and so you guys have clung to glorified (but quality) fan fic as "the real Star Wars" and the closest you'll ever get to more of what you fell in love with in the first place.
Fair enough, and who can blame any of you? But remember back when there was only the original trilogy and you really,
really wanted more Star Wars movies?
Well now you will get them, except unlike the prequels these have a fighting chance of actually being
good. And if they are, you'll be on board like all the non-crazy EU fans.
I'm not the Star Wars fan that you are, but the original trilogy once meant a lot to me and the concept of new films unsullied by the complete control of Lucas is pretty appealing.
Yes, you had your heart broken and you were utterly wronged and it sucked. But that cute girl across the bar is giving you the shy smile and, hey,
who knows?
Renault on 31/10/2012 at 17:25
Quote Posted by faetal
I will never understand annoyance aimed at sequels / re-boots. Even if it turns out awful, the original films still exist = NO NET LOSS.
Agreed 100%. This pretty much covers it for my opinion on Thief 4 as well.
ZylonBane on 31/10/2012 at 18:59
Quote Posted by faetal
I will never understand annoyance aimed at sequels / re-boots. Even if it turns out awful, the original films still exist = NO NET LOSS.
So your alien brain is incapable of processing the emotions of *Intense Disappointment* at *Misplaced Anticipation* and *Wasted Opportunity*.
Don't you have some *Juice* you should be *Squeezing*?