fett on 1/11/2012 at 16:58

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The word "sanctity" is stupid and I don't know what other word to use. Legacy, maybe? Simply, I'm saying that most things that were good in the beginning are better left alone. Other than Batman, I can't name many IP's that improved with more tinkering. That's ALL I'm saying.

Stitch - Where have I re-directed my anger? It's not even anger, it's confusion. I've been consistently saying that new ideas/characters/story = fine. Re-casting/continuing from Lucas' notes from the end of ROTJ = train wreck. Pretty much what you said in the last sentence of your post there. The point of my confusion (or anger, if you want) is everyone saying "Yay, it's going to be different and therefore better," when it's been specifically stated that it will NOT be different - that it's based on Lucas' notes, and will not be a "new" story, but rather a continuation. I hope that changes soon, but in the meantime, that's exactly what you're saying is a bad idea yourself. I don't see how we even disagree on that. Though I do disagree with your assessment that Lucas' involvement is a good thing. Lucas had the original seed, but judging from the prequels, it was people like Ben Burtt, Lawrence Kasdan, etc. that kept him in check. I can see where having new blood will definitely create a good environment that curbs the more excessive tendencies in his treatments. But to me, the first step in that is to ditch anything he's written altogether, solving the whole original cast member problem to boot. And for the record, these are not "toe-stub" outbursts. I've had this view every since reading the Thrawn trilogy and realizing that the EU was going to be a legit, equally creative and exciting continuation of the saga, possibly even moreso than films, given the direction Lucas' was heading in with ROTJ. I've *never* wanted sequel films, and have clammored for stories with new or peripheral characters in this universe as far back as the early 90's. I'm a Star Wars nerd to the nth degree - this is not the first time I've thought through these scenarios or had this conversation.

I guess we also disagree about Pixar - I thought Cars was great. In fact, I thought everything they did was great up until Cars 2. Brave was a nightmare. Yes, it's the same people calling the shots, but if you can't see that Brave was distinctly "Disney" then you haven't seen near enough bad Disney films. Maybe they'll come out of the slump, but they have *mostly* sequels in the works now, just like Disney does more sequels and IP purchases for that purpose than original fare these days. AND they don't know when to quit. We didn't need Pirates 4, Cars 2, Little Mermaid 12 and so on. They release more direct to video shit-fests than any company in existence.

Vasquez on 1/11/2012 at 18:48

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But what's this angst over Disney, since Lucas obviously was not going to leave things alone anyway?

Stitch on 1/11/2012 at 20:19

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I think listening to Lucas is probably a good thing, and even letting him brainstorm all the ideas that he wants. He is the center of Star Wars, after all, and as such the sequels will feel more like proper sequels if Lucas helps guide them.

At the same time, though, I can't think of any other figure in recent entertainment history who has so thoroughly miscalculated his strengths and singlehandedly run a previously-beloved franchise into the ground. You can trace everything that sucked about the prequels and original trilogy tinkering back to choices made by Lucas.

And so the ideal balance would be a new movie made by talented, lifelong fans who listen to Lucas and even get excited by some of his ideas, but then firmly draw a line in the sand and send George off to play while the grown ups work.

As for the cast, I'm guessing the story won't center around the old cast except possibly to establish them as mentor-type characters, akin to what Obiwan was in the original film.

Still, I can't help but cross my fingers and hope for Luke as the Vader-esque main villain :cool:

fett on 1/11/2012 at 20:56

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Stitch - did you ever watch the Red Letter Media reviews of the prequels? Good assessments of what went wrong, barring all the stupid attempts at shock comedy in between the commentary. Well worth watching for anyone interested in film or writing. The guy sounds like an idiot but his analysis is brilliant.

fett on 1/11/2012 at 21:43

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Until I watched those, I had never really considered that Lucas doesn't really understand his own universe. I had hoped there was some master plan behind it all, then figured I was too dumb to suss out what it was after ep.III. I think you're right though - he's a great idea guy. Writer, not so much. I remember even a few years after ROTJ when he talked a bit about the next three (7-9) feeling wary of him as a director - mainly because of the Ewoks (which I don't mind so much now), the fact that he didn't have the balls to kill off a significant good guy (Lando, Chewie, etc.), and the way Han Solo lost almost all of his initial edge. I was 13 at the time. I remember wondering what another Lucas' Star Wars might be. This was also the time when the merchandising just became ridiculous. I was actually a bit relieved when it all kind of faded out and we went into the "dark ages." I would imagine he has some good ideas - even the prequels show sparks of that. But they're going to have to take his input as raw, undeveloped big picture ideas and let someone with more sense figure out how to make a story from them.

I wonder sometimes too if filmmaking in general hasn't moved beyond the simplicity of on-the-nose storytelling. Campbell's hero arc has been done to death and it feels trite anymore. Maybe that was part of the charm of the original - we'd never really had that theme played out on a big screen with believable characters and special effects up to that point. I think the 70's culture and that moment in film history had so much to do with its success, and not so much great acting, writing, or dialogue. I worry that a new director (or Lucas himself) would be under the delusion that they can re-create that, instead of doing something fresh and not trying so hard to cop the themes from the originals like they did in the prequels. He probably thought it was a great idea, but it just comes off contrived to me.