Ravenhaft on 3/6/2004 at 08:38
Do you know what kind of collision setup and the like it would take to show each item being stolen with Garrett's hands? Why don't you go do it, because I don't think it'd add much to the game :p
Eep on 3/6/2004 at 08:40
Why not? It's all part of strategy. Having to worry about your shadow is strategy. Timing your thefts/pickpockets so the victim doesn't see you doing it is strategy. Sure, it could be optional for those who may think it's too hard, but I'd certainly welcome the challenge!
Quote Posted by dr. cello
That'd be nice, yeah, though it might actually kill immersion in some parts. Like how you won't see his hand open a door. You go through too many steps to open doors. If that's not controlled by the player, it doesn't feel natural. Maybe. I'd be interested to see how it would work, really. Stealing various loot items. Paintings, etc. It'd make for more challenge, too, since you couldn't just grab things from in front of guards. They'd see your hand and hear it clinking, etc., etc...
It'd be an interesting experiment, but I don't know if it'd be worth the time to code.
Eep on 3/6/2004 at 08:43
Yea, so what? It's not like Thief wouldn't be the first game to have such collisions. Outcast's characters had animations and collisions for transferring objects between characters and into the main character's backback (albeit the items just blipped in and out of it, but it was more relealistic than Lara Croft's weapons magically changing places in mid-air!).
Object collisions will get there eventually--it certainly would add a lot to the strategic element of stealth games like Thief.
Quote Posted by Ravenhaft
Do you know what kind of collision setup and the like it would take to show each item being stolen with Garrett's hands? Why don't you go do it, because I don't think it'd add much to the game :p
irR4tiOn4L on 3/6/2004 at 09:09
no it wouldnt..
dr. cello on 3/6/2004 at 09:12
My concern is more that the code would be difficult, or the implementation less than immersive. I would definitely enjoy the challenge.
Kompi on 3/6/2004 at 10:44
Quote:
Yea, so what? It's not like Thief wouldn't be the first game to have such collisions. Outcast's characters had animations and collisions for transferring objects between characters and into the main character's backback
It's not like Outcast had 5 individually modelled fingers to wrap around several differently-shaped objects and accurate real-time lighting to apply to said fingers, plus the hand and arm connected to them. And then we have the whole issue of always standing in different angles from things.
Splinter Cell tries to do something like that, with the result that yeh'll often see Sam Fisher slide across the floor without moving his feet as the game positions him properly for doing pickups and interactions. Thief: DS simply can't do that as the first person perspective wouldn't support it. I'm sure it
could be done with a ton of work.. but considering players would loose control of Garrett while the grab animation was played and have a limited "cone of grabness" restricted to arm length and bendability.. it's a very likely scenario that people would scream damnation and embark on a crusade to burn ION Storm to the ground.
The guards not noticing some obvious things is simply to limit the game from being too difficult. If ION Storm wanted to make an AI that would totally own Garretts behind all while having time over to iron their armor and polish their sword they could've, and likely without too much a hassle either. It's just that it would seem Thief 1 and 2, on expert, not using saving/loading, seem easy. And while it could be.. interesting.. to see such an AI available for some "ultra-expert" difficulty setting.. most people undoubtedly would skip right too it, and then hate the game for being way too hard.
Eep on 3/6/2004 at 10:49
There's no reason Garrett has to slide into place like Sam does in Splinter Cell, however. Garrett should be able to stretch and twist and contort himself into position like any good thief. Regardless, even gliding is most definitely doable in 1st-person mode in Splinter Cell. Besides, Thief 3 already has somewhat of a "glide" mode when picking up bodies, so your rebuttal is moot.
As for the AI, you assume too much. If anything, most people would use the normal setting. Some would choose easy, others "ultra-expert". If they complain, it's their own fault. <shrug>
dr. cello on 3/6/2004 at 10:50
Anyway, couldn't he, like, step into an appropriate position?
TheMachine on 3/6/2004 at 11:17
What would be idea would be gloves the player(i.e you or me at home) we wear the gloves and out hand movements are mimiced in game, so WE open doors, WE grab people (I'm thinking WAY in the future here) you could even go as far as to have "force feedback" in the gloves so that a grab would be a struggle...
... you COULD even mimic enviromental changes in the gloves I.E. they slowly warm up when you near fire, and they cool down when outside...
Pulling a bow, lockpicking, everything dexterity related in this game would be awsome to pull off yourself.
Hay... i'm a dreamer.
Eep on 3/6/2004 at 11:20
This is what virtual reality (so popular in the early 1990s) was working on. There is some limited "force-feedback" in glove units but it's still too expensive and in R&D to be practical for consumers at this time.
