New Horizon on 20/10/2013 at 20:52
Quote Posted by Nuth
That's the extreme, but about the best I've seen on other forums is maybe half positive and half negative.
For a AAA game with this much time and money wrapped up in wasted development, a 50 / 50 split is far too much.
EM have been constantly missing the mark from the very beginning, all starting with the Thi4f logo. It's like they did no prior research into the history of the fanbase or the game itself, beyond what they could see on the surface.
Goldmoon Dawn on 20/10/2013 at 21:00
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
The response to this game in this community was atrociously negative before anyone knew even a single detail about the game other than that it would exist.
Links please?
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Regardless of what anyone on this forum says, I can pretty much guarantee the new game will be just as successful as Deus Ex Human Revolution and Tomb Raider were.
Ok, there goes any credibility you might have had at one time.
Renault on 20/10/2013 at 21:15
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Everyone I talk to regularly thinks the game looks promising, and myself and most of my friends are 25+ and have played the original games. The vocal minority are old school purists who hate anything and everything that is even slightly different from their rose-colored glasses nostalgia-vision of how it should be.
OK, that's great that your friends are excited for it, but what are they basing that on? Have you read any of the interviews with the devs, read the E3 reports from legitimate gaming sites, watched gameplay footage, etc? Because we're not just blindly throwing out criticism here, most of us here have done our research and we're responding to hard facts that EM has presented publicly. You don't need to have played the game to have issues with things like the lack of Stephen Russell, limited freedom of movement, contextual actions, XP and upgrade systems, drastically changing Garrett's character, Swooping, Focus, etc etc etc - I could go on for a while. If you and your friends are OK with these things, well then have fun. But most of the fans who played the original games aren't OK with it all, so we express that sentiment in the forums here.
You might have heard (or maybe not) that the XP system has recently been removed from the game - more than likely it was because EM listened to some of the criticism like the stuff you read here and realized their mistake. So much for the "vocal minority."
Frankly, your "25+" comment scares me, that would have put you at about 10 when The Dark Project came out, which might explain a lot.
And yeah, the new game might sell through the roof - but that doesn't make it a good game, or even more to the point, a good
Thief game.
jay pettitt on 20/10/2013 at 22:17
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Atrocious! Negative! Stuff!
tbh, I think if you go back and read the threads here, you'll find a range of views.
To be sure, some seem pretty rabid. But even if you take, say GMD, who's apparently royally pissed that nuThief isn't a direct descendant of Lord British or some such, it's kinda understandable. Not by me or at least not straight away. Garriott & Ultima is a smidgen before my time and I just didn't get into that scene. But maybe if I had watched Looking Glass do the 3D games based on table top RPGing and inspired by the top down Computer RPGs like Ultima, and maybe if you watched that evolve into the lean mean thing that is Thief, then maybe it is at least sort of fair to point out that the genetic line for T4 is broked.
I'm not saying I agree. But after a bit of thinking, I can at least get what he's getting at and I don't get hot under the collar about it.
Quote:
Everyone I talk to regularly thinks the game looks promising, and myself and most of my friends are 25+ and have played the original games. The vocal minority are old school purists who hate bla bla bla bla hate bla hate rose tinted hate glasses :mad::mad::mad::mad:
What do you think looks promising about it?
demagogue on 20/10/2013 at 23:05
I think we have a range of perspectives too, if you dig, from the frothing rabid to the blindly forgiving to every position in between. It's been far from total consensus on a lot of things.
The mission statement of the forum is to uphold the legacy of Looking Glass Studio though, so I'm not surprised we have a general slant or even agenda running through a lot of threads. I think it's understandable this isn't just any other game franchise for us.
People should still back up what they say though, I think, and see pros and cons even handedly without kneejerk prejudice.
Starker on 21/10/2013 at 00:55
It is rather audacious to say that we are blindly hating the reboot when every interview and piece of game footage is shown so much attention here and every aspect of the game is being discussed and debated to death. Especially when people have laid out their reasons for not liking it.
Goldmoon Dawn on 21/10/2013 at 01:01
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
tbh, I think if you go back and read the threads here, you'll find a range of views. To be sure, some seem pretty rabid. But even if you take, say
It has nothing to do with the shortsighted opinion that we hardcores were "atrociously negative" as soon as the game was announced. To the untrained eye, I guess, it may appear this way. But that is sloppy thinking, and research.
The truth is that we knew what a Thief 4 should be, especially when compared to the last attempt that was Deadly Shadow. We were not "hating" on a potential Thief 4, merely outlining right from the start how the game should be. Obviously, NuTeam had a completely different business model in place even before that!
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
But maybe if I had watched Looking Glass do the 3D games based on table top RPGing and inspired by the top down Computer RPGs like Ultima, and maybe if you watched that evolve into the lean mean thing that is Thief
Again, it wasnt only Ultima, but also the 1st person view Might and Magic, Wizardry, and a plethora of other classic crpg. As I illustrated in some long lost thread how Ultima Underworld basically lifted the HUD from Might and Magic, on and on.
So, what you are left with is the current situation. Look, the fans of Might and Magic did the exact same thing the Thief fans did, when the new MM was announced. We scrutinized everything about what the game should be. The difference here, is that the new MM team is comprised of hardcore fans themselves, and have extensively invited us in to the development process from day one.
:ebil:
GodzillaX8 on 21/10/2013 at 03:12
Every post I read on this forum is "Why this thing that is different sucks" or "I wish this thing were more like the old thing".
Changing actors is something that happens nearly constantly, in animation, video games, tv shows, and even movies. It's not worth trashing the game over, even if you don't agree with their reasoning.
They added RPG advancement, you can argue all you want that it somehow ruins immersion, or goes against LGS design philosophies, or whatever nonsense you've come up with today, but to be completely honest, none of that matters to the vast majority of the gaming audience. People love RPG advancement, myself included. I don't see it as detrimental in the slightest. I don't think it ruins Garrett's character to have him be able to hone his skills in some way. Then again, I always preferred System Shock and Deus Ex to Thief, too. That is not to say that I didn't love the old Thief games, I just don't think a reboot should just be a retexturing of the original game. If you want that, just wait for the HD texture mod to release for Thief Gold and replay it.
Contextual jumping, leaning, and rope arrows are utterly miniscule issues in the larger scope of gameplay, and I don't really get why people are flipping out about them. How often do you find yourself hopping through the levels? Or leaning back and forth randomly while walking? Considering the new game will likely be employing a sort of "Metroidvania" style progression like Tomb Raider did, it's probably pretty necessary for them to gate off how and where you can use rope arrows, so that you won't be able to just constantly sequence break with them. I don't think it's going to destroy the game because rope arrows are a little bit less useful. I don't think it's going to destroy the game that you can't lean at will, because how often do you lean other than when you're looking around a corner anyway? Honestly? And I don't really think a game has to feature the ability to constantly jump everywhere to be good. There are plenty of great games where jumping doesn't even exist. I don't think it will inhibit your ability to explore because you won't be able to jump on very obviously placed crates etc.
The game is still very focused on stealth, and avoiding fights is still the best solution, so I really don't understand why everyone seems to think it's going to be some kind of action-laden kill-fest.
The light gem? Seriously? That's considered a valid complaint? Why does it need more than 3 stages? It's not like it wasn't already painfully obvious when you were hidden/somewhat hidden/visible with the original gem, I fail to see how simplifying that very slightly is GOING TO UTTERLY RUIN THE GAME OMG.
The vast majority of opinions I've seen on this forum have been incendiary towards the game for no reason other than it isn't the same as what they expected. No one seems to even believe slightly that there's even a slim chance they could ever enjoy the game. That is the mindset I completely don't understand.
Judge the game for what it is and as a standalone game, not for what you think it should be, because nothing can compare to your nostalgia.
Renault on 21/10/2013 at 04:45
I'm not going to debate your points one by one, that's been done ad naseum around here and there are threads available on all of these topics if you want to pursue it. But you argued that we're the only ones that are negative about the new game - here are some links that prove you're dead wrong about that:
(
http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/26/4269912/thief-reboot-impeded-by-office-politics-high-level-departures) Polygon - Thief reboot impeded by office politics, high-level departures
(
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/10/09/new-thief-trailer-same-old-worry/) Rock Paper Shotgun - New Thief Trailer, Same Old Worry
(
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/previews/10414-Preview-Thief-Didnt-Steal-the-Show-at-E3-2013) The Escapist - Thief Didn't Steal The Show at E3
(
http://kotaku.com/were-just-not-sure-about-the-new-thief-heres-why-837598751) Kotaku - We're Just Not Sure About The New Thief, Here's Why
(
http://www.padinga.com/2013/06/12/e3-2013-ryse-is-not-impressive-thief-is-meh/) Padinga - E3 2013, Thief is meh
(
http://www.incgamers.com/2013/08/eidos-montreals-new-thief-wont-even-let-you-jump-when-you-want-to) Inc Gamers - Eidos Montreal’s new Thief won’t even let you jump when you want to
(
http://www.oxm.co.uk/63770/previews/stolen-goods-an-hour-in-the-world-of-eidos-montreals-thief/) Official Xbox Magazine - Stolen goods? An hour in the world of Eidos Montreal's Thief (Ed goes hands-on with the reboot, and comes away worried)
This is just a sampling of articles, in addition to some of the criticism expressed not only here, but on the official Thief forums as well. When they come back up, just go over there and read through a few threads for 5-10 minutes, you'll see what I mean.
It's fine if you're looking forward to the new game - in some ways, I am too, and I'll be picking it up right away. But don't be naive enough to think that TTLG are it's only critics.
svs on 21/10/2013 at 05:48
What I consider to be pretty promising is that the latest hands-on articles with the latest build of Thief seem to be getting more and more positive, and that the folks at EM really seem to respond to fans' feedback.
Re: Adam. I always got almost immediate responses to my PMs over at the official forum. He was always very polite and positive with me - and in general too, I think. Even if his responses here weren't necessarily always fully thought out. Very nice guy. I wish him all the best.
