jay pettitt on 22/10/2013 at 10:26
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Do I have to post pictures of my original Thief CD-ROMs for anyone to take my opinions seriously on this forum?
Yes please. Worn about your neck on a night about town as giant bits of bling. That or you're no tru fan.
jay pettitt on 22/10/2013 at 11:04
Quote Posted by MoroseTroll
Would you watch "House M.D." with Hugh Laurie replaced with somebody else right between the third and fourth seasons? The same with "The Sopranos" & James Gandolfini? "Breaking Bad" & Brian Cranston? I wouldn't.
I would. Not that I've watched any of them. But actors come and go.
What rubs is that Stephen Russell delivered some of the most memorable performances in video gaming ever for Thief. And it seems as though they've replaced him with someone who while not exactly bad is, from what we've heard so far, decidedly average. Stephen Russell would be very nice, but not having a first class performance from anyone is the problem.
And apparently all because developers love live mocapping quicktime events.
I don't know whether it was Paul Weir or someone at Eidos Montreal or what - but there should have been someone calling the shots in that office with enough nous to put vocal performance before tech, or to have put someone competent at auditioning actors in charge of recruiting the lead player, or have had someone working with the actors to get a top notch performance out of them.
MoroseTroll on 22/10/2013 at 12:41
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Not that I've watched any of them.
Um... Do I understand you correctly: you didn't watch those three TV shows at all?
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
And it seems as though they've replaced him with someone who while not exactly bad is, from what we've heard so far, decidedly average. Not having a first class performance from anyone is the problem.
I would pose it a bit different: the only reason to replace the VO actor is another, better suitable VO actor. In case with Romano Orzari, it is definitely not.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
And apparently all because developers love live mocapping quicktime events.
Yeah, more kewl features for the wider audience :(.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
I don't know whether it was Paul Weir
He doesn't work at EM since March, 2012.
New Horizon on 22/10/2013 at 12:43
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
I would. Not that I've watched any of them. But actors come and go.
If you haven't watched house or breaking bad then you can't say you would have watched those shows after. lol They ARE the show. Breaking Bad without Cranston and House without Laurie...well, there just wouldn't be a show. I suppose it would be something, but without the characters that drive the story, it's a completely different thing. I wouldn't watch them. I watch them for those actors.
jay pettitt on 22/10/2013 at 14:24
Quote Posted by New Horizon
If you haven't watched house or breaking bad then you can't say you would have watched those shows after. lol They ARE the show. Breaking Bad without Cranston and House without Laurie...well, there just wouldn't be a show. I suppose it would be something, but without the characters that drive the story, it's a completely different thing. I wouldn't watch them. I watch them for those actors.
lol.
No actually I get it. The strong performance is the thing. But other actors can and do give strong performances in a roll defined by someone else. Sometimes.
Quote Posted by Morose Troll
Um... Do I understand you correctly: you didn't watch those three TV shows at all?
Yup. Nor any others. Except 'The Wrong Mans', which is excellent.
Quote:
I would pose it a bit different: the only reason to replace the VO actor is another, better suitable VO actor. In case with Romano Orzari, it is definitely not.
Um, okay. But there are obviously many other reasons to replace a voice actor, aside from finding someone better.
It's also a thing that an actor is but one part of a chain of roles that produces the final performance. The script writing and direction are also important. Along with a bunch of other roles that help everyone deliver on the day. Romano might actually be a very good actor (I don't know) - but if the script is lousy, the direction doesn't know what they want or how to get it etc etc... you get the idea... there's lots of things that could go wrong.
Quote:
He [Paul Weir] doesn't work at EM since March, 2012.
Sure. I don't actually know when the Live Stage Mo-Cap was done though. Or what Paul Weir's role, if any, was. Weir mentions on his website was that the original intention is he would be responsible for
all the audio, including vocal performances. Though obviously things went South somewhere along the trip.
hopper on 22/10/2013 at 15:43
Quote Posted by New Horizon
If you haven't watched house or breaking bad then you can't say you would have watched those shows after. lol They ARE the show. [...] I watch them for those actors.
Nice argument, if you mean to say that Stephen Russell IS Thief. If not, your comparison doesn't really make sense. I've played all Thief games several times in German, obviously without Stephen Russell as Garrett. I don't even know the name of the German voice actor, but then, that's all he is - a voice actor. At best, I'd compare him to a minor supporting role. You don't hear Garrett talk very often, outside of the briefing sequences. As a game element, Garrett's voice isn't terribly important to me. The game's art direction, movement, ambient (light, sound, textures, and objects), level design, AI, etc. etc., that to me "is" Thief. I've enjoyed the games immensely (though Thief 3 less so) because of all that, without the felicity of hearing Stephen Russell's voice. I have a hard time believing his voice would have made such a radical difference to my gaming experience. Ditto for most fan missions, which even in the English versions make do without Russell's voice*, without diminishing anyone's enjoyment of them.
*As a side note, when FM authors do their own voice parts for their characters, playing them with the German game means that all the other voices, of servants, guards, and the like will still be in German, as will Garrett himself. This makes for an amusing mix of languages within the missions, which is a mild distraction, but nothing that a little extra dose of suspension of disbelief can't cope with.
MoroseTroll on 22/10/2013 at 15:59
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
But other actors can and do give strong performances in a roll defined by someone else. Sometimes.
Yeah - just sometimes:cheeky:.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Yup. Nor any others.
Well, it's your decision.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Romano might actually be a very good actor (I don't know) - but if the script is lousy, the direction doesn't know what they want or how to get it etc etc... you get the idea... there's lots of things that could go wrong.
Nevertheless, I still believe that a better VO actor will perform his work... well... better, even of the overall quality of the direction is meh. Heck, we all can recall that somewhere at the middle of T1 or T2 production, Stephen Russell had an influence upon the design of a few game maps, i.e. he had managed (I'm sure unwittingly) to change the direction a bit. How did that happen? The answer is obvious - his VO work as Garrett was just f***ing awesome, and Thief designers all admitted that.
Pyrian on 22/10/2013 at 16:06
Fictional characters that have been around as long as Garrett has, are almost invariably re-cast at some point or another.
Queue on 22/10/2013 at 16:27
^ Jon St. John is still portraying Duke Nukem.
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
It's also a thing that an actor is but one part of a chain of roles that produces the final performance. The script writing and direction are also important. Along with a bunch of other roles that help everyone deliver on the day. Romano might actually be a very good actor (I don't know) - but if the script is lousy, the direction doesn't know what they want or how to get it etc etc... you get the idea... there's lots of things that could go wrong.
Even though it was studio misinformation, I wonder what people would have thought if Ronald Reagan had actually played the role of Rick in
Casablanca. Would it still be considered a masterpiece of cinema with such a shitty actor in the lead?
New Horizon on 22/10/2013 at 17:03
Quote Posted by hopper
Nice argument, if you mean to say that Stephen Russell IS Thief.
Different topic my friend. I was addressing his comment that he would watch a TV show where the star of the show was suddenly recast several years in. The creator of Breaking Bad created the show with Bryan Cranston in mind, so to have him mysteriously replaced by another actor 3 or 4 Seasons in just wouldn't be plausible...unless the guy did a really good Cranston impression, but then it's just imitation.
Same goes for Laurie, the writers write the character with his particular gifts as an actor in mind.
Moving back to the subject of Stephen Russell as Garrett, that's a completely different situation since it's voice acting. There are several issues with replacing him:
1. EM's reasoning was because they placed a higher value on tech...not that Stephen was dead or unable to do justice to the character he helped create.
If they had cast a better actor, it might be easier to swallow...but if Ozari is the best they could find, then they really should have stuck with Stephen. He delivers the goods and most fans never wanted anyone but him.
