SubJeff on 26/3/2020 at 00:12
Quote Posted by lowenz
Evidence for a *possibility* ? Never asked for the "truth" (there's NO truth here)
Maybe the interaction is more complicated but of course there's must be a reason why the infection ramps up so quickly and common drugs can be involved as a factor.
That's not how reality works.
Why is there a lower death rate in Germany than in Italy? Let me give you two correlations you might want to consider. And these ARE real correlations, they are both facts about the differences in the populations.
1. Italians are more likely to have consumed gelato in the past year. Therefore gelato consumption is a risk factor in severity of Covid-19.
2. Germans are less likely to have been called a stronzo, by their friends as a joke possibly. Therefore
not ever begin called a stonzo is protective when you get Covid-19.
I love these two so much.
Nicker on 26/3/2020 at 00:14
My take on the masks is they prevent me from touching my face. That's got to be worth something.
zombe on 26/3/2020 at 01:52
Quote Posted by SubJeff
What speciality zombe?
I guess some clarifications are in order as i think there was some room from misinterpreting what i said. By "WE" in "since WE got our first cases" i meant we as a country.
So, worth repeating: i have zero education in any ever remotely relevant field. My interest in the subject stems, as hinted, having close relatives working in hospitals (not anymore since their kid got tested positive). Especially as many of the close relatives have underlying health issues relevant to this disease - including me. Hard to stay away from the topic.
----------------------------
To change the subject completely - something the orange buffoon said recently. Seeming to try his best to give a glorified spin to sharing one ventilator between multiple patients or something. I read about that some weeks ago. Seems like a shitty solution - but the math has potential (chance to save two or more instead of writing them off). Don't really know how it is done, but seems to me that it would be very restrictive in what features of the device you can use (ex: cannot see how you could use assist control mode - and would not the more intrusive modes require sedation?). Most useful in regards to this disease seems to be (backed by research with statistically significant results): low tidal volume (~2000. might outright require sedation, if memory serves, of patient as the body does not want to do what the ventilator dictates) including using paralysis (for complete sync with the ventilator - not a sane option in outbreak situation). That stuff (if deemed an option to begin with) does not sound to be possible when the device is shared. Sounds like a choice: good care for one and kill off the rest vs shitty care for all and possibly they all die as a result.
Quote Posted by heywood
... Estonia ... also appear to be over the hump.
I would not go that far. It has been barely 14 days since shit hit the fan and restrictions started to roll out. The virus is out there - with two hotspots (one isolated, one not). That said, so far it has been relatively stable but still growing (ie. probably a good idea to ignore the initial super-spreader fallout anomalies from stats and see the slight upward trend that emerges then). There was time when our case count per pop was the fifth in the world (!) - not anymore. Unfortunately, not because we are doing super well - just the rest of the world has gotten into much bigger trouble. Current strategy, besides isolation, is extensive testing. We had some problems with that at the start. While out testing capability was ramping up well (now exceeding S.Korea numbers per pop) - we had a considerable risk of running out of kits with no real hope of getting more in time (tiny countries are first in line to get screwed in situations like this). However, we recently got that sorted for a while at least and testing has been ramped up also. Positives per tests performed has gone down to 0.08 (almost half of what it used to be) now and lowering in effort to find the positives as soon as possible to additionally help preventing spread via unaware secondary carriers (ie. you had recent contact with someone who was infected). So, expecting higher number of new cases from now on for some time - but probably/hopefully not for long and not an exponential runaway. Will see.
Sulphur on 26/3/2020 at 03:39
Quote Posted by lowenz
Evidence for a *possibility* ? Never asked for the "truth" (there's NO truth here)
Maybe the interaction is more complicated but of course there's must be a reason why the infection ramps up so quickly and common drugs can be involved as a factor.
Look, until the actual experts actually run the entire battery of tests with scientific method at their disposal, armchair speculation is more likely to whip everyone up into a frenzy with conclusions based on incomplete data and information. I get that you're spitballing, but only after I look at the context of your posts -- if we didn't know better they'd appear to be presented as fact, and that's the opposite of being useful. So while I'm sure everyone appreciates the interest, dial it down until we get actual clinical conclusions, not work in progress guesstimation.
lowenz on 26/3/2020 at 07:17
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Why is there a lower death rate in Germany than in Italy? Let me give you two correlations you might want to consider. And these ARE real correlations, they are both facts about the differences in the populations.
Less (number of) contagions.
Here we had a massive event (Atalanta match with vs Valencia), with 40.000 people from Bergamo and Brescia outskirts there.
With already a good number of active spreaders there.
So think about the 40/30/20 yo with no symptoms but infectious that talks all day long about the match and the great moment for our beloved soccer team with his parents/grandparents on ACE inhibitors......
That's the context for the correlation with ACE inhibitors..
Of course is NOT the ACE inhibitors that increase the contagions.
lowenz on 26/3/2020 at 07:24
Quote Posted by Sulphur
actual experts
Yeah but here "experts" (not so young people) are dying too.
Virtually 50% of the medical staff is infected, virologists too.
