faetal on 17/2/2022 at 19:22
Quote Posted by Thor
Interesting, that the
fact checkers denounce a nobel prize winner literally a few days after his death. I'm sure his opinion was based on systematic racism, misogyny, antivaxx and anti-science beliefs.
I'm also sure that none of you or your acquaintances suddenly had a major dip in overall health/death after any one/multiple of the c19 vaccines (must be just me and all the other misinformation spreaders).
Montagnier was pretty widely ridiculed for his views, and is on the list of former Nobel laureates who fell into disregard due to spouting demonstrable bullshit: (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease)
There is literally no reason to believe that the COVID-19 vaccine has any negative impacts (above standard vaccine molecular mimicry antibody side-effects, which are as usual way lower probability than infection with the virus) whatsoever, outside of antivax talking points, which always seem to trace back to hearsay, bitchute links and youtube videos of cranks.
If you have proof to the contrary, cough it up. Make sure to observe the usual etiquette, such as referencing the page & paragraph which backs up your claim, or the timestamp on a youtube video, so people aren't expecting to wade through large documents or lengthy videos on the off chance there is something worthwhile in them.
Thor on 17/2/2022 at 19:54
Quote Posted by faetal
Montagnier was pretty widely ridiculed for his views, and is on the list of former Nobel laureates who fell into disregard due to spouting demonstrable bullshit: (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease)
There is literally no reason to believe that the COVID-19 vaccine has any negative impacts (above standard vaccine molecular mimicry antibody side-effects, which are as usual way lower probability than infection with the virus) whatsoever, outside of antivax talking points, which always seem to trace back to hearsay, bitchute links and youtube videos of cranks.
If you have proof to the contrary, cough it up. Make sure to observe the usual etiquette, such as referencing the page & paragraph which backs up your claim, or the timestamp on a youtube video, so people aren't expecting to wade through large documents or lengthy videos on the off chance there is something worthwhile in them.
Ah yes, scientific consensus and ridicule (i.e. misalignment with trending dogma) is ground truth. I think I've mentioned this before and it fell on deaf ears but as a bad habit I'll repeat it once in a blue moon - I don't automatically disregard any opinion that doesn't align with "my agenda", I don't dismiss random hearsay (especially when it's en masse) nor the mainstream media. In my eyes mainstream media's consistent lying (especially over the last couple of years) hasn't exactly earned my trust to take seriously anyway ('member when "mandatory vaccination" was a crazy conspiracy theory? 'Member when lab leak theory was banned from social media because it's a crazy misinformation conspiracy theory? Fun times... I don't have all night to list their lies though...). I follow logic, reason, evidence and personal experience. By the way, I also thought that the lab leak theory was unlikely and mere fear mongering from the other side.
I'm glad that you personally have all your friends in good health and I hope it stays that way, but in my case I know several folks (I don't even chat with many nowadays) who have admitted to having worse health since their vaccination (also they seem to magically get c19 within weeks after vaccinations), and in very similar ways to what I've heard from other random "hearsay". Which is less than what I've heard about adverse c19 disease experience (1 case seemed to actually suffer from it beyond a flu-like experience). 1 local-ish celebrity received all the vaccines (+ booster) and successfully died from c19 shortly after. Very useful vaccine, if nothing else.
faetal on 17/2/2022 at 20:26
I don't have an "agenda", just a couple of decades of science experience and a doctorate in immunology.
But sure, your anecdotes and the Joe Rogan podcast are jarringly equivalent in weight to global scientific efforts.
Do you have anything in the way of proof of what you are saying? Or am I supposed to ignore hundreds of research articles and hundreds of millions of vaccine dose data points because some guy on a forum doesn't buy it?
You're bringing a toothpick to a tank battle. Why should what you say matter if you can't calmly describe the basis of it?
Azaran on 17/2/2022 at 20:53
Quote Posted by Thor
I'm glad that you personally have all your friends in good health and I hope it stays that way, but in my case I know several folks (I don't even chat with many nowadays) who have admitted to having worse health since their vaccination (also they seem to magically get c19 within weeks after vaccinations), and in very similar ways to what I've heard from other random "hearsay". Which is less than what I've heard about adverse c19 disease experience (1 case seemed to actually suffer from it beyond a flu-like experience). 1 local-ish celebrity received all the vaccines (+ booster) and successfully died from c19 shortly after. Very useful vaccine, if nothing else.
Many people in car accidents were wearing seat belts, and still died. Ergo, seatbelts must be useless....
Yes, there are people who are fully vaccinated and still get severe Covid and/or die, but they're the exception. The overwhelming majority of deaths and severe cases are among the unvaccinated.
Inline Image:
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/lRa5IEMgPyeYfSmVfFXMVkD6oMA=/0x0:10447x6176/655x387/media/img/posts/2022/02/Covid_Eldery_2_01/original.pngAs for harmful vaccine aftereffects, they only affect a tiny potion of the vaccinated.
Whereas, if you get Covid, you have a 20% chance of either dying, or having your life totally ruined
Pyrian on 17/2/2022 at 21:41
Quote Posted by Thor
Interesting, that the
fact checkers denounce a nobel prize winner literally a few days after his death.
Interesting, that when presented with a link to a fact-check article, you
obviously didn't
read it, since it does nothing of the kind: "There is no evidence Montagnier said this..."
Quote Posted by Thor
...I don't automatically disregard any opinion that doesn't align with "my agenda"...
You literally just now did exactly that - dismissed and ridiculed an opinion that didn't align with your agenda without even bothering to learn what that opinion
was well enough to attack it on the basis of anything
in that opinion.
SD on 18/2/2022 at 00:34
Quote Posted by Azaran
Whereas, if you get Covid, you have a 20% chance of either dying, or having your life totally ruined
Uh, what?
Azaran on 18/2/2022 at 01:04
Quote Posted by SD
Uh, what?
It depends on the study, but the average incidence of long Covid hovers from (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID) 14% to 37% (higher if you get hospitalized)
Now, the death incidence is 3-4%, but I just lumped the risk of death and/or long term consequences together - realistically you should expect at least 2/10 chance of either from what I've read.
SD on 18/2/2022 at 19:02
Ah okay, so when you said "life totally ruined", what you meant was "may have temporary post-viral fatigue".
Also while we're here, infection fatality rate is substantially below 1% over the entire pandemic, and even lower now.
lowenz on 18/2/2022 at 20:03
Quote Posted by SD
Ah okay, so when you said "life totally ruined", what you meant was "may have temporary post-viral fatigue".
For the ones in their 70s is the life ruined.
It's not only the "fatigue", it's the heart tissue deterioration but you're obviously not interested in this.
You're interested in denial and "counter attacking" what you think (
they've made you think) it's an hoax/reality distortion to attack "freedom".
So please, continue this delusional "
let's debunk the debunker" parade.
SD on 18/2/2022 at 20:34
Quote Posted by lowenz
For the ones in their 70s is the life ruined.
It's not only the "fatigue", it's the heart tissue deterioration but you're obviously not interested in this.
You're interested in denial and "counter attacking" what you think (
they've made you think) it's an hoax/reality distortion to attack "freedom".
So please, continue this delusional "
let's debunk the debunker" parade.
I've read the above a few times now and I still have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Apart from the ludicrous attempt to strawman me as some kind of covid denialist.
All I was doing was debunking the preposterous claim that "if you get Covid, you have a 20% chance of either dying, or having your life totally ruined".
