faetal on 8/9/2021 at 08:48
If you are going to post links to massive documents, you need to quote relevant paragraphs and indicate which conclusions you are drawing from it.
Prove that you have read and understood, otherwise, it is safest to assume that you are just taking them as proof of something because your favourite conspiracy facebook group said so.
I feel I may have mentioned this before.
lowenz on 8/9/2021 at 09:35
The first SARS2 variant was really LESS virulent than nowdays *NATURAL* variants, so where is the "gain of function" utility if natural selection can do better in just some months?
And no, you can't design a virus to deterministically evolve through natural selection in some more deadly form, it's totally science fiction.
Azaran on 8/9/2021 at 23:40
(
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/people-who-were-vaccinated-and-got-covid-19-were-half-as-likely-to-have-long-term-symptoms) Well, I spoke too soon
Quote:
Researchers analyzed data from more than 1.2 million adults in the United Kingdom who participated in the national COVID Symptom Study.
They evaluated reports from people who had been given at least one dose of Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or AstraZeneca mRNA COVID-19 vaccine between December 2020 and July 2021.
Researchers included a control group of unvaccinated people for comparison.
According to the findings of 971,504 fully vaccinated people, only 0.2 percent went on to develop a breakthrough infection.
When this data was compared with reports from unvaccinated people who got COVID-19, it was found that b
reakthrough cases were associated with a 49 percent lower risk of symptoms lasting 4 weeks or more after infection.
faetal on 9/9/2021 at 08:46
So you haven't read and understood the documents you posted then?
Unless you can come up with page numbers and paragraph quotations to the contrary (from the source docs), then all I see is some evidence that work was being done to study coronaviruses, which is kind of a given since both SARS and MERS were reported as potential emergent concerns from bat coronavirus repositories as far back as (
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176051/) 2007.
Your articles somehow completely misunderstand the actual information in the documents as they all intimate that novel
viruses were being created and tested on humanized mice, which I guess for a rabid conspiracy nut must feel like salve for the soul in terms of pointing to the idea of it being a human-engineered virus.
Except that anyone who understands how category 4 biohazard lab protocols work knows that these were in fact (
https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-a-Pseudovirus.aspx) pseudoviruses (also, every reference to testing against humanized mice in the documents refers to pseudovirus, never virus), which are not capable of infecting anything. Indeed, it would be FUCKING STUPID to engineer live viruses in any lab which could infect humans.
While it remains possible that the pandemic started as the result of a lab accident (i.e. first infection started with some kind of fuck up in containment / isolation protocols), the fact that bat coronaviruses have already made the jump to humans a few times in recent history and were predicted to be able to do so pretty much continually, it is still safer to shout HORSE rather than ZEBRA when hearing hoofbeats. I'd even say that lab accident is a lot less likely because it would involve the virus to jump straight from bats to humans, rather than via intermediate species jumps, which is how viruses usually make their way to humans.
nbohr1more on 9/9/2021 at 12:52
Quote Posted by faetal
So you haven't read and understood the documents you posted then?
Unless you can come up with page numbers and paragraph quotations to the contrary (from the source docs), then all I see is some evidence that work was being done to study coronaviruses, which is kind of a given since both SARS and MERS were reported as potential emergent concerns from bat coronavirus repositories as far back as (
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176051/) 2007.
Your articles somehow completely misunderstand the actual information in the documents as they all intimate that novel
viruses were being created and tested on humanized mice, which I guess for a rabid conspiracy nut must feel like salve for the soul in terms of pointing to the idea of it being a human-engineered virus.
Except that anyone who understands how category 4 biohazard lab protocols work knows that these were in fact (
https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-a-Pseudovirus.aspx) pseudoviruses (also, every reference to testing against humanized mice in the documents refers to pseudovirus, never virus), which are not capable of infecting anything. Indeed, it would be FUCKING STUPID to engineer live viruses in any lab which could infect humans.
While it remains possible that the pandemic started as the result of a lab accident (i.e. first infection started with some kind of fuck up in containment / isolation protocols), the fact that bat coronaviruses have already made the jump to humans a few times in recent history and were predicted to be able to do so pretty much continually, it is still safer to shout HORSE rather than ZEBRA when hearing hoofbeats. I'd even say that lab accident is a lot less likely because it would involve the virus to jump straight from bats to humans, rather than via intermediate species jumps, which is how viruses usually make their way to humans.
I am not going to be lectured by someone who is throwing every effort into denying that China is developing bio-weapons.
I'm sure you understand what is and isn't proper lab protocol but your arguments lean heavily on the concept that "China obeys bio-ethics".
lowenz on 9/9/2021 at 14:39
But *viruses* make BAD bio-weapons 'cause they're unpredictable! Nobody wants an unpredictable weapon!
faetal on 9/9/2021 at 15:26
Quote Posted by nbohr1more
I'm sure you understand what is and isn't proper lab protocol but your arguments lean heavily on the concept that "China obeys bio-ethics".
I'm leaning on the argument that the "proof" that you posted doesn't show the thing you think it shows.
Maybe China is developing bio-weapons, who knows, but the idea that this pandemic is somehow a manifestation of that, requires more than link spamming and saying "CHINA IS DODGY THEREFORE ANYTHING BAD I IMAGINE THEM DOING MUST BE TRUE".
Your opinion is that China started this pandemic - fine, I'm happy for you. But your opinion shouldn't be assumed to be fact without evidence.
You're free to have whatever opinion you like, but when you post your opinion in public places as fact, don't get a wobbly lip when people ask for something solid.
You're not asking them to accept that a certain sports team is objectively better than another, you are asking them to accept the nation of China committed a global act of bio-terrorism.
I get tired of saying this, but out of curiosity, why is TTLG an audience you are so desperate to convince? You get nothing but flak when you post here, and you know that if you don't provide solid evidence, you're going to get pushback.
It's like someone keeps hitting your reset button.
Also, what lowenz said. The best bioweapons are ones which can be targeted, not ones which spread everywhere. It's a
China hates everyone including themselves scenario. Who benefits?
Starker on 9/9/2021 at 16:05
Who knew top secret bioweapons research could be so easily uncovered with a simple FOIA request.