zomfg1234 on 1/4/2021 at 10:34
I'll repeat myself but I can't get over that dissonance, which is corporations and government are bad unless they (supposedly) serve my needs. Somehow I have to trust them this time, because this time they mean good, they didn't mean good a thousand other times but this one is special. It has to be, all the paid scientists told me so. A year ago, somewhere in the beginning more "independent" scientists (at least those who seemed to have no real agenda) already told us it's going to be a normal endemic and that at most it's about protecting those who can truly suffer from it, which is not a lot. Even the mainstream media told us that it's not really bad, if you have a good memory, you can go through the whole process and see the narrative slowly changing so that it fits whatever we have now.
Quote:
It wasn't fascism when you got your shots as a kid and it's not fascism now.
It's not fascism to expect you to drive your car on the correct side of the road and stop at intersections.
It's not fascism to require you obtain a license and insurance to drive on public roads.
It's not fascism to require you to obtain a high school diploma to get a job.
It's not fascism to require you have health insurance to attend a university.
It's not fascism to require good credit to qualify for a loan.
I could go on.
None of these are mandatory in the sense that everyone has to do it. Actually I don't have to have a high school diploma to get a job, it's important but not essential. I can also loan money from people who don't need good credit score, at the expense of me being obliged to pay more. Injecting an experimental, leaky vaccine should be entirely my choice, not at the expense of my rights, which really is unprecedented when you think about it.
I get it, this thread is for drooling over statistics and being an echo chamber in general. So there's no point in arguing when nobody is willing to change their mind, a waste of time really. Though the real difference between us is that as much as I disagree with the whole Covid farce, I would never tell anyone to be forced to do anything like that, even those whom I genuinely despise. I would just mind my business and do my thing. You say I am egoistic because I am thinking about myself. Well, when I go to Covid subreddit, I keep seeing "please can we force those people to do what we want so we can go back to being normal earlier?" all the time, it's frankly quite funny being so hypocritical and not being aware of it. I don't mind wasting this year as long people's freedom is unharmed, you wouldn't mind to put me in a cage if it meant that you can go back to whatever you want to do. Which is something I have also heard already, "retards should be in cages, who cares". I also saw the comment "immunocompromised people shouldn't go out and travel anyway" as one of the most upvoted ones in the thread. Hmm, not that I am trying to find things I can get mad at, just that if that's your idea of how a life should be lived, then really there is nothing to talk about here.
I hope you will keep in mind that lockdowns are not going to go away without major riots and other incidents. It's a very, very beneficial situation for the rich to keep people in that state. You will hear more about strains, about vaccines not being effective as much, needing more time. I remember the "two more weeks" narrative from the last year. Now it's two more years, how does that work? Anyway, siding with the government on this one is a big fucking mistake but I think you will see for yourself why soon. Historically the only time when the government stops a practice like that is when people rebel, do you think you will be allowed to go back to normal if you do exactly what they tell you to do? Are you this naive? You will get even more restrictions, but again, you will see that for yourself. The saddest thing is that people who will fight for your freedom are the ones you despise the most, a sad thing indeed.
faetal on 1/4/2021 at 11:31
YOu aren't fighting for anyone's freedoms, you are mistaking your ignorance and gut feel for "wisdom of the unindoctrinated" and treating anyone who disagrees with you as being brainwashed.
Like a thousand other doofuses on the internet, without a shred of logic or cogent reasoning.
You're entitled to your beliefs, but you aren't entitled to other people's acceptance of them if you aren't willing to put the work in to construct a decent argument.
Think what you like, say what you like, but expect to be treated in a manner which matches your effort & knowledge.
[EDIT] Also: "...got the most upvotes in this thread..." - did you copy paste that whole bit from Reddit?
Fingernail on 1/4/2021 at 11:38
Quote Posted by zomfg1234
I'll repeat myself but I can't get over that dissonance, which is corporations and government are bad unless they (supposedly) serve my needs. Somehow I have to trust them this time, because this time they mean good, they didn't mean good a thousand other times but this one is special. It has to be, all the paid scientists told me so. A year ago, somewhere in the beginning more "independent" scientists (at least those who seemed to have no real agenda) already told us it's going to be a normal endemic and that at most it's about protecting those who can truly suffer from it, which is not a lot. Even the mainstream media told us that it's not really bad, if you have a good memory, you can go through the whole process and see the narrative slowly changing so that it fits whatever we have now.
I think understanding of the virus (particularly in the West) has evolved and improved so it's not surprising that early assessments weren't the most accurate. There is still quite a lot not known about the long-term effects of the disease on many. Look at countries that more accurately assessed the danger early on - Taiwan for example which closed its borders and has managed to avoid many deaths whilst keeping society 90% open as before. In the UK at least, the government and scientists based a lot of their planning and assumptions on modelling for a flu pandemic, which turned out not to fit Covid-19 very well. There was a lot of guff talked about how the UK couldn't have responded in this way, and yet here we are a year later all wearing masks, having tolerated (broadly speaking) quite restrictive lockdowns, our borders are (finally) more tightly controlled (although probably not enough) and (patchy) hotel quarantine has been put in place. This could all have happened a year ago, and still isn't well enough organised, probably because all hopes are now pinned on our (admittedly quite well run) vaccine roll-out. It's due to these early fateful decisions that we are having to tolerate continued restrictions.
heywood on 1/4/2021 at 14:07
Quote Posted by zomfg1234
None of these are mandatory in the sense that everyone has to do it.
Neither is getting the vaccine.
But if you don't get the vaccine, you may find that a lot of people don't want to be near you. It's a case of other people making a choice not to expose themselves to disease carriers. They have a right to exercise their freedom of association. You don't have a right to demand entrance to places where you'll put people at risk.
Quote:
I hope you will keep in mind that lockdowns are not going to go away without major riots and other incidents.
Are you in Europe? There are no lockdowns here.
faetal on 1/4/2021 at 15:21
Quote Posted by heywood
Are you in Europe? There are no lockdowns here.
One starting in France from Monday for at least 3 weeks, but that's not the point anyway. We're at r = 1.12 and 99% intensive care occupancy. Stopping people from spreading is pretty much the only option when health service is loaded so high. Macron was warned (by scientists who are probably *gasp* PAID) that this would happen after the British variant took root over here and now he is paying the price for holding out so long.
But hold on, aren't lockdowns some kind of government conspiracy? In which case, why are governments ignoring scientists for as long as possible before implementing them?
X files music
Twist on 1/4/2021 at 16:29
Welp, I guess my wife and I will be on Team Moderna. We somehow managed to get vaccination appointments on the first day they will become available to all adults in our area. I lost my dad to covid-19 last April, so the whole thing feels... I don't know. I guess I still can't write about it. But things are getting better... right?
I'll try to let you know if I start to feel more inclined to support totalitarian governments or grow more enthusiastic about the future of Windows.
(Also, zomfg: fuck you for promoting and perpetuating ignorance, further endangering more lives, you selfish little shit.)
zomfg1234 on 2/4/2021 at 09:30
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
faetal on 2/4/2021 at 10:04
Posting quotes isn't a particularly convincing argument. Are you hoping to influence people's opinions or are you just here to let off steam?
heywood on 2/4/2021 at 13:06
He's demanding his right to get sick. O kaay... :erm:
But not just that, he's demanding a right to share it with others who don't want it.
And if you don't let me get you all sick, that's tyranny.
In other words, my stupidity trumps everyone else's right to do what they want to do.
That's not libertarian.
catbarf on 2/4/2021 at 14:40
Quote Posted by zomfg1234
Injecting an experimental, leaky vaccine should be entirely my choice, not at the expense of my rights, which really is unprecedented when you think about it.
What rights are you losing? You still have the rights to complain about it online and demonstrate in public. Nothing is being confiscated from you without trial and you're not being fined for staying unvaccinated. Your rights are not being infringed upon.
You don't have any right to
demand access to businesses, gatherings, and events that bar non-vaccinated people from attending. They have every right to deny entry to people who demonstrate a tangible risk to others. 'Refuses to get vaccinated' is not a protected class.