Nicker on 31/3/2021 at 05:43
That saved me a lot of typing, Pyrian. Thank you.
faetal on 31/3/2021 at 07:27
Engaging cognitive dissonance in 3...2...
zomfg1234 on 31/3/2021 at 16:25
You are not wrong in the sense that vaccines are not really effective, at least the ones that we have now. The virus will stay with us forever, I get that. But considering all the people who are immune and shouldn't take the vaccine at all (vaccines do have side effects and have long term consequences for some people), it's wrong to force it onto people. At this point there are only downsides to this for people like me and you can't say for sure that each vaccine shot will be safe, you can't guarantee me that.
Segretating society between those who fully obey the government and those who don't is always a bad idea. You might think it's justifiable but looking at history, as long as you allow them to take more and more, they will do just that. Today it's not letting you in for a concert. Tomorrow it's blocking your bank account. To me it's just a way to introduce a system like that of China's. And you can think to yourself that it's all good because it's related to a virus (not a really deadly one statistically speaking). What happens when you have to agree to something you personally don't want to do? Oh, by then you won't have any say in it, that's because you allowed them to take too much. What will you do then? If by chance some future vaccine or whatever has a 10% chance to render you infertile, but you have to take it because you signed for that system, what will you think then? Which is not that unbelievable, rich people already expressed a desire to cull the earth's population, they will surely find a way.
Herd immunity is cool but freedom is always more important. I mean, you could take every inch of society's freedom, put them in pods for "their own good" and some people would still defend it. There are certain boundaries that if once crossed, you never get it back.
It's not that people are stupid, it's because they don't trust their government, that's the reason there are anti-vaxxers. I don't trust my government and I have millions of reasons to do so. Why the fuck would I sign for a system that forces me to do things they want specifically? Why would you trust them when time and time again they showcase their ability of being corrupt and malevolent? You see that with your own eyes yet you think "this time it's different". That's simply naive.
The last thing I'll say is that the lack of self awareness here is astounding, quite disturbing to put it lightly. People hate corporations for breaking the law, for using less developed countries to maximize profit etc. They also hate government for larcenous taxation, for being incompetent, for little effort into ending poverty and crime and so on. Yet the same exact people fully support the idea that is backed by corporations and governments, and they call those who don't want to submit to a fascist system the enemies. Yeah, guess what, segretation is a part of the fascist system. You are so opposed to fascism (in theory) but you actually want to introduce one, one that is beneficial only to those that rule over you. I know cognitive dissonance is tough to swallow but believe me, I am not the one suffering from it here.
heywood on 31/3/2021 at 20:17
Congratulations zomfg1234, you get to play Russian Roulette.
I've placed two revolvers on the table. One has 6 chambers, one has 100 chambers. Each revolver has one bullet randomly placed in one of the chambers. Pick one of the two and put it to your head. Which do you choose?
Oh, I see you picked the 6-shooter. Are you sure that's the one you want?
...
Really sure?
...
OK, fine, suit yourself. Good luck. Now pull the trigger.
^^^
This is why we need something like a COVID passport. To keep the crazies like you away from the rest of us. I want to be able to go to a hockey game or a concert and not have to worry whether there's a super-spreader sitting next to me. And take my 86 year old lung cancer and heart disease surviving Dad on one last vacation down in the Carribean. I want to have my kids enjoy normal social contact at school again, and go to museums with hands-on exhibits, and summer camps. Etcetera.
By the way, the federal government is not going to require vaccination. It never has. There are existing state requirements to vaccinate children that attend public schools. You were probably vaccinated as a child. I fully expect public schools will require COVID-19 vaccination at some point. Beyond that, a "COVID passport" of some sort may be required for various things, like visiting a relative in a nursing home, attending a large sporting or entertainment event, attending college, taking a cruise, international travel, maybe even visiting a hospital or getting on a domestic flight. Some employers will probably require it as well. None of this is the government forcing you to do something.
You can choose whether to get vaccinated, but you may find yourself left out of things if you don't.
zomfg1234 on 31/3/2021 at 20:47
Quote Posted by heywood
Congratulations zomfg1234, you get to play Russian Roulette.
I've placed two revolvers on the table. One has 6 chambers, one has 100 chambers. Each revolver has one bullet randomly placed in one of the chambers. Pick one of the two and put it to your head. Which do you choose?
Oh, I see you picked the 6-shooter. Are you sure that's the one you want?
...
Really sure?
...
OK, fine, suit yourself. Good luck. Now pull the trigger.^^^
This is why we need something like a COVID passport. To keep the crazies like you away from the rest of us. I want to be able to go to a hockey game or a concert and not have to worry whether there's a super-spreader sitting next to me. And take my 86 year old lung cancer and heart disease surviving Dad on one last vacation down in the Carribean. I want to have my kids enjoy normal social contact at school again, and go to museums with hands-on exhibits, and summer camps. Etcetera.
By the way, the federal government is not going to require vaccination. It never has. There are existing state requirements to vaccinate children that attend public schools. You were probably vaccinated as a child. I fully expect public schools will require COVID-19 vaccination at some point. Beyond that, a "COVID passport" of some sort may be required for various things, like visiting a relative in a nursing home, attending a large sporting or entertainment event, attending college, taking a cruise, international travel, maybe even visiting a hospital or getting on a domestic flight. Some employers will probably require it as well. None of this is the government forcing you to do something.
You can choose whether to get vaccinated, but you may find yourself left out of things if you don't.
"Nobody will force you to do anything, but! If you want to participate in society and have rights, you have to do what we tell you"
Why do you advocate for fascism again? Simple question.
heywood on 31/3/2021 at 20:57
It wasn't fascism when you got your shots as a kid and it's not fascism now.
It's not fascism to expect you to drive your car on the correct side of the road and stop at intersections.
It's not fascism to require you obtain a license and insurance to drive on public roads.
It's not fascism to require you to obtain a high school diploma to get a job.
It's not fascism to require you have health insurance to attend a university.
It's not fascism to require good credit to qualify for a loan.
I could go on.
faetal on 31/3/2021 at 23:06
Quote Posted by heywood
I could go on.
You'd be wasting keystrokes. This person isn't here to discuss in good faith.
They are simply taking their beliefs out for a stroll.
Starker on 31/3/2021 at 23:50
Quote Posted by zomfg1234
a virus (not a really deadly one statistically speaking).
2.81 million people dead. Statistically speaking. And counting. In the US alone, 550 thousand people.
In a year, this virus has managed to kill over 10% of the number that HIV, bar none the biggest epidemic of modern times, has killed in 4 decades.
Quote Posted by heywood
It's not fascism to require you have health insurance to attend a university.
Here, it's the other way around -- you get health insurance when you attend a university (because it's assumed you spend your time studying and not working).
heywood on 1/4/2021 at 00:17
Here, most students are covered by a parent's health insurance.
But if you're not covered elsewhere, most schools offer a group health insurance plan. You'll have to pay for it of course, but the cost isn't too bad because students tend to need less health care than the rest of the population. But regardless of how you get covered, most schools require that you do.
Nicker on 1/4/2021 at 01:22
Quote:
Why do you advocate for fascism again? Simple question.
And this saved me a lot of typing too.
Why do you think your momentary wants are more valuable than someone else's life? Simple question.
