Starker on 24/10/2020 at 00:31
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I've had 6 years of Latin in high school.
That's a lot of high school.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
You guys didn't get Latin in high school ?
I think we had the option of setting up an elective course in the last year, but if fell through for some reason or other. I did study it later in the uni, though, as it was required for English majors.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I think the Italian guy has it right.
He pronounces the "ch" in "machine" as if it was a "g".
Almost all the other pronounce the "ch" as it was "k".
I think that's wrong.
Not 100% sure. Because in Dutch we always pronounce "ch" as "g".
But remember, Italian is like Latin version 2.
So I think the Italian guy knows best.
It's k, but aspirated, so it sounds a bit different.
Gryzemuis on 24/10/2020 at 00:58
Quote Posted by Starker
That's a lot of high school.
Skip the next paragraph if Dutch school's don't interest you.
In NL we have multiple types of high school. We don't even call it high school, that's an English word. We have/had 3 streams. A 4-year stream (12y - 16y) that focuses on practical jobs. Learn to make things with your hands. E.g. become a car mechanic. There's a 6-year stream (12y - 18y) that prepares you to go to university. And there's a 5-year stream in between (12y - 17y). That prepares you for "higher education". But that's not university. You can become a teacher, an accountant, computer-engineer, etc.
The 6-year stream comes in 2 varieties: one with the classical languages (greek and latin) (called gymnasium), and one without (called atheneum). For the rest they are the same. I was dumb enough to pick the one with greek and latin. I had 3 hours per week of greek in class 2 and 3. And 5 or 6 hours of latin during every year. A total waste of time. Languages are not my thing.
I asked whether none of you had Latin in school, so I could later make a joke about education in the US. And how the US is a shithole country. :) I guess I can't make that joke any more now. :)
Quote:
It's k, but aspirated, so it sounds a bit different.
Are you sure ? I'm not convinced. Any sources ?
Starker on 24/10/2020 at 01:06
Not sure about a source, but Latin words with the letter combination ch come from Greek where the letter X (chi) was pronounced as an aspirated k.
Actually, here's one answer I found though quick googling:
Quote:
(
https://www.italki.com/question/456480?hl=en)
In classical Greek, character χ represented the sound "kh" (the sound of "k" followed by breathing noise). I think it was Romans who transliterated the Greek character as "ch" but the idea is the same because ancient Romans pronounced letter "c" as "k". That's how we have spellings like "technique", which is based on the Greek word τϵχνη (techne), "character", "mechanical", etc. So, the Greek name χι of letter χ is transliterated to "chi" and pronounced "kai".
Oh, and it's also in the Wikipedia (the small superscript h after the k marks aspiration): (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_phonology_and_orthography#Table_of_orthography)
Harvester on 24/10/2020 at 08:42
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I think "de" is pronounced like the English word "day".
I agree mostly with Harvester. But I think the "y" or "j" in front of the "oo" should hardly be hearable.
You’re right, it’s more like Day Oos Ex than Day Yoos Ex.
I dropped the classical languages after the third year of VWO (the 6 year track) by the way, so I’ve had two years of Latin and one year of Greek.
SubJeff on 24/10/2020 at 10:33
6 years is a lot of high school?!
Starker on 24/10/2020 at 11:30
I'm kind of jealous now, but to be honest I don't think I would have appreciated it nearly as much in high school. I didn't really get anywhere with languages until I started to study them by myself. In the uni, though, I took as many as I could fit in the schedule -- German, Latin, and English (the obligatory ones), plus Japanese, Chinese, and French on top of that. I wanted Korean too, but I never could find the time.
If I live long enough, I'd like to learn all the Romance languages at least, but now I'm wondering just how easy would it be to pick up Dutch with the languages I know. A lot of the words look awfully similar to either German or English and if I look at written Dutch, I feel like can almost, but not quite, understand it.
Gryzemuis on 24/10/2020 at 12:38
Dutch, English and German are very similar. They are all three Germanic languages. So once you get used to Dutch words and Dutch pronunciation, it should be relatively easy to understand written text, and maybe even understand spoken language. However, the irregularities, and the differences between the 3 languages are gonna be what will keep you from becoming good. Unless you live here for many years.
I'm a guy of semantics. I am interested in what is being said. Not how it is being said. Language is just syntax. A different notation for the ideas and stories people tell. But I can understand that others enjoy listening or speaking another language.
demagogue on 24/10/2020 at 13:27
Via exorbito sequela, vulgus. :p
heywood on 24/10/2020 at 13:36
Latin was an option when I was in school, but few people opted for it because it's pointless.
So I spent 4 years learning German instead, which was equally pointless.
I should have taken Spanish. That I could actually use.
My daughter's school is teaching Mandarin starting in Kindergarten. That seems like a smart idea.
SubJeff on 24/10/2020 at 14:02
Quote Posted by Starker
I look at written Dutch, I feel like can almost, but not quite, understand it.
Yeah, it does seem that way. Should look at Afrikaans too.
Quote Posted by heywood
Latin was an option when I was in school, but few people opted for it because it's pointless.
So I spent 4 years learning German instead, which was equally pointless.
I should have taken Spanish. That I could actually use.
My daughter's school is teaching Mandarin starting in Kindergarten. That seems like a smart idea.
If you'd learnt Latin then you'd find Spanish easier, no? Not that it's especially hard for an English speaker though. Not compared to French or something.
Mandarin... spoken, it's a fine idea and far, far easier than you might think. But to learn it properly, ie. to learn to read it? Nah. What a waste of time. You'd be better off learning Spanish and Italian, which you could do in the same amount of time. Mandarin is due a major overhaul of the writing, just for practical sake.