☣ Coronavirus ☣ - TTLG Forums

Renzatic on 20/5/2020 at 18:22

Here's the thing about it. Yeah, the quarantine will hurt the economy, will probably force some people out into the streets. The thing is, doing nothing will end up with considerably larger numbers of dead, a swamped healthcare infrastructure, which will hurt the economy, and will probably force some people out into the streets. We're in a lose lose situation, so we may as well take the loss that doesn't have quite as much hurt in it.

By this point, opening the economy now or two months from now isn't going to make much of a difference. The damage has already been done, so we may as well continue on the current path, rather than jumping the gun too soon, and risking another outbreak.

The fact that this is probably going to happen again in the fall is just...well, it's shit icing on a septic tank cake.

We are going to hurt from this no matter what. The hurt won't be permanent. We just need to fucking endure for a tiny little bit, then things will eventually settle back down. This isn't the first national level quarantine we went through. The Spanish Flu was, by all metrics, considerably worse, and we recovered from it in 2 years. Why freak out now?

Sulphur on 20/5/2020 at 18:28

So, if it wasn't already blindingly obvious, arguing logic with someone who's arguing from a place of blind irrational panic is the kind of thing social media exists for.

The thing is, jk isn't arguing a violation of personal liberties. He's justifying his actual core problem, which is 'muh moneys', with the fallacy of what he thinks his rights are in an emergency. And you know, I get why his idea of saving his own bacon is essentially committing voluntary manslaughter, because it's coming from a place of selfish idiocy.

But the problem is, not only does jkretarda not understand how a single case can cause a recurrence of an epidemic, but his casual waving away of the disease -- which, as of today, still has no cure -- with his justification that it's okay if some people die as long as he gets to keep his house means that there's a core violation of everyone else's personal liberties coming from that when they cross paths with him. Everyone has a right to live, and anyone that threatens that is a bigger problem than the right to have a job. It's a simple matter of societal priority, which seems to elide his lizard brain over and over again.

If this is the kind of person who votes Trump, we suddenly understand how the politics work, because this congenital lack of critical thought means it's easy to manipulate people into believing completely contrary things at the same time. Considering how insultingly simple this situation is -- it's not even steeped in the actual layers of civic and communal complexity other countries have -- it's a pretty damning state of affairs you guys have let yourselves slide into.

jkcerda on 20/5/2020 at 18:31

Quote Posted by Renzatic

1.Here's the thing about it. Yeah, the quarantine will hurt the economy, will probably force some people out into the streets. The thing is, doing nothing will end up with considerably larger numbers of dead, a swamped healthcare infrastructure, which will hurt the economy, and will probably force some people out into the streets. We're in a lose lose situation, so we may as well take the loss that doesn't have quite as much hurt in it.

2 By this point, opening the economy now or two months from now isn't going to make much of a difference. The damage has already been done, so we may as well continue on the current path, rather than jumping the gun too soon, and risking another outbreak.

3.The fact that this is probably going to happen again in the fall is just...well, it's shit icing on a septic tank cake.

4.We are going to hurt from this no matter what. The hurt won't be permanent. We just need to fucking endure for a tiny little bit, then things will eventually settle back down. This isn't the first national level quarantine we went through. The Spanish Flu was, by all metrics, considerably worse, and we recovered from it in 2 years. Why freak out now?

1. now you are the one projecting. no where did I say "do nothing", shit as mentioned I was with you for the first two weeks.
2 disagree, we have hurt too many people to the point they will end up homeless and fucked along with their children.
3 there is nothing stopping that shit show. maybe we can hire those nurses back and get things handled since for the first time in history there are a bunch of unemployed nurses.
4. I hope I am wrong but I still see suicides outnumbering chinese virus deaths. 30 million unemployed and thousands of businesses closing forever, that along with the TRILLIONS we are going into debt. if that does not freak you out then what will? we are fucking ourselves and our grand children to eternal debt.

Renzatic on 20/5/2020 at 18:36

I'm not gonna say that JK is being selfish here exactly. He's just not looking at the full scope of things.

We're facing a disease that we know very little about. It's far from being the deadliest disease ever, but it's bad enough to raise some potential havoc in the near term. He's thinking it's not that big of a dead. X amount of dead and infected in Y amount of time is just...bleh. You know about what we get in the flu. He doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that the initial response is the reason why the numbers are so "mediocre."

We've seen what happens when you don't think this seriously. It looks like Italy. It looks like Spain. It looks like New York City. It can be pretty fucky.

But he has a point in that people NEED to work. Bills are due. Rent is due. Food needs to be put on the table.

...so what can you do? Pretend it's not a problem, send everyone to work, risking the lives and health of millions of people on the hopes that maybe it won't be that bad in the long term, or do we quarantine everyone in, preventing them from earning money to feed and clothe their families on the hopes that maybe it won't be so bad in the long term?

No matter which path you choose, you risk a failure state. It is a situation with no happy medium, no success state. We're forced to sacrifice our lives, or our livelihoods.

jkcerda on 20/5/2020 at 18:37

Quote Posted by Sulphur

So, if it wasn't already blindingly obvious, arguing logic with someone who's arguing from a place of blind irrational panic is the kind of thing social media exists for.

please consider not having a mirror so close when you post.
here let me fix the rest for you.
.

The thing is, Sulphur isn't arguing a violation of personal liberties. He's justifying his actual core problem, which is 'muh fear of people earning a living', with the fallacy of what he thinks his rights are in an emergency. And you know, I get why his idea of saving his own bacon is essentially committing voluntary manslaughter, because it's coming from a place of selfish idiocy. (voluntary manslaughter damn I got nothing there since that is so far the fuck out, how fuck will that happen if YOU are in YOUR home? am I coming in? no? then????)

But the problem is, not only does Sulphuretarda not understand how people earning a living and keeping a roof over their head will keep them healthy ,............ (fuck , back to work...)

Renzatic on 20/5/2020 at 18:39

Quote Posted by jkcerda

1. now you are the one projecting. no where did I say "do nothing", shit as mentioned I was with you for the first two weeks.

Thing is, this won't just go away in two weeks. Like the Spanish Flu, it's here for at least a year. If you think things are good enough, you risk an outbreak again, putting us right back at square one. The previous sacrifice was made in vain, and we gain nothing.

Quote:

2 disagree, we have hurt too many people to the point they will end up homeless and fucked along with their children.

Think of it like this: it's not as bad as what we faced in 2008. That was an internal market error that remained uncorrected for too long, and all but crashed our economy when the error became too big to ignore. This? It's an external force temporarily suppressing an otherwise healthy market.

...we're more likely to recover from this more quickly than we did the Great Recession.

Sulphur on 20/5/2020 at 18:48

Quote Posted by jkcerda

retard spew

Translation: @!$%???? I NO RED GUD, I GO INFEKT POEPEL BCIS $$$ KTHNX ALSOH UR DUM HAF SUM PUNCTUUSHUN......... ... -- .... / .-.. --- .-.. / .-. . -.- - / .-.. . -- -- . / .-.. .. -.- / -- .- .... / -... .- .-.. .-.. ... / -. --- .-- / --- .... / ... .- .-.. - -.--

edit: for clarity's sake, I'm still operating under the implicit assumption that jk is the most dimwitted troll TTLG has ever seen, and this is my last direct response to him. He only deserves the best, and by the best, I mean ALL DE PUNCTUUUSHUUN.

jkcerda on 20/5/2020 at 19:04

Quote Posted by Sulphur

EXACTLY Sulphur, your retard views are one size fits all, YOU know better than anyone else and what YOU should do should be forced down everyone's throat no matter what situation they are in.........

Sulphur on 20/5/2020 at 19:06

Quote Posted by Renzatic

I'm not gonna say that JK is being selfish here exactly. He's just not looking at the full scope of things.

Quote:

But he has a point in that people NEED to work. Bills are due. Rent is due. Food needs to be put on the table.

...so what can you do? Pretend it's not a problem, send everyone to work, risking the lives and health of millions of people on the hopes that maybe it won't be that bad in the long term, or do we quarantine everyone in, preventing them from earning money to feed and clothe their families on the hopes that maybe it won't be so bad in the long term?

No matter which path you choose, you risk a failure state. It is a situation with no happy medium, no success state. We're forced to sacrifice our lives, or our livelihoods.

The problem is this could have been better contained, so the initial response would have dictated how the economy could open back out in phases. Now that there are containment measures in place, it's getting under control, but the price of that delayed response and cavalier attitudes in general is that this thing will take longer to flatten out.

Having said that, I'd imagine that your lives come before your livelihoods. If Canada and NZ can figure out better solutions, I don't see wh-- okay, you've got Trump. Yeah, sorry, but you're fucked either way.

jkcerda on 20/5/2020 at 19:38

Quote Posted by Sulphur

See, you're looking at it from the perspective of his demands being reasonable. But they aren't. The idea that you need an income source right now isn't unreasonable; the problem is, his solution is 'fuck y'all and your policies, imma go do my shit because I got my rights'. I'm not unsympathetic to the problem of people's livelihoods being fucked by this thing, but you don't get to be cavalier about it just because you don't care about the risks involved - you'll get societal pushback, and rightfully so.

The problem is this could have been better contained, so the initial response would have dictated how the economy could open back out in phases. Now that there are containment measures in place, it's getting under control, but the price of that delayed response and cavalier attitudes in general is that this thing will take longer to flatten out.

Having said that, I'd imagine that your lives come before your livelihoods. If Canada and NZ can figure out better solutions, I don't see wh-- okay, you've got Trump. Yeah, sorry, but you're fucked either way.

holy shit there is yet hope for you, lunch. we are BOTH making one mistake here that I just caught. give me a few minutes.