Renzatic on 9/5/2020 at 00:24
That sounds like something that could come about due to oxygen deprivation.
demagogue on 9/5/2020 at 02:00
There's been articles on it. It's because of coagulation and possibly inflammation of the vessels making little clots stick.
lowenz on 9/5/2020 at 06:13
Quote Posted by demagogue
There's been articles on it. It's because of coagulation and possibly inflammation of the vessels making little clots stick.
What I've been saying since the start? ;)
It's not ONLY a classic viral pneumonia destroying the cells hijacking ribosomes, on top there's a viral-induced interstitial pneumonia (that is NOT the whole disease but only the manifestation @lungs) 'cause the vessel inflammation.
The lungs get engulfed by your own *clotting* blood, no more space to O2/CO2 exchange!
Infection -> some virus glycoproteins *stimulate* the interferons activity (the virus literally hijacks the initial immune response maybe to damage more tissues and colonize them) -> inflammatory division of the immune system (cytokines -> (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interleukin_6) ) attacks the vessels -> blood clots and coagulation gets altered -> root of the lethality for the most of people with cardiocirculatory and cardiovascular issues.
lowenz on 9/5/2020 at 06:28
Quote Posted by Pyrian
So I've been reading a bit about "Covid-Toe". Apparently a lot of infected, mostly otherwise asymptomatic but sometimes post-serious-illness, get rashes on their feet or hands, most commonly on their toes. Red or purple, a bit swollen and often painful and/or itchy. Could be a handy clue for finding cases that don't otherwise present.
I got it in the hands - and nails - and face.
And the rectal venous plexus gone mad :D
Surprise! This in the first week of March, after the possible infection (16 february in the hospital - got the symptons of the first exposure to the virus after some days, nothing severe but the infection+immune overreaction seem very persistent, until the "correct" immune answer to the second exposure - all got solved mid April, so 2 months ).
It's why I'm totally sure that's something that mimicries a vasculitis @work here......it's an infection-induced vasculitis (it's an *autoimmune* disease of the blood vessels).
The infection
per se is not that serious.
Of course here in Bergamo (italian epicentre of the crysis) we are all waiting for the blood IgM/IgG tests AT LARGE.
lowenz on 9/5/2020 at 14:55
(
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19?rss=1)
Virus gone but the disease remains for weeks ;)
One week after I was discharged, I became increasingly short of breath. I had to go to the hospital again, but fortunately, I could be treated on an outpatient basis. I turned out to have an organizing pneumonia-induced lung disease, caused by a so-called cytokine storm. It's a result of your immune defense going into overdrive. Many people do not die from the tissue damage caused by the virus, but from the exaggerated response of their immune system, which doesn't know what to do with the virus. I'm still under treatment for that, with high doses of corticosteroids that slow down the immune system. If I had had that storm along with the symptoms of the viral outbreak in my body, I wouldn't have survived. I had atrial fibrillation, with my heart rate going up to 170 beats per minute; that also needs to be controlled with therapy, particularly to prevent blood clotting events, including stroke. This is an underestimated ability of the virus: It can probably affect all the organs in our body.See?
Ah:
After fighting viruses all over the world for more than 40 years, I have become an expert in infections. I'm glad I had corona and not Ebola, although I read a scientific study yesterday that concluded you have a 30% chance of dying if you end up in a British hospital with COVID-19. That's about the same overall mortality rate as for Ebola in 2014 in West Africa. That makes you lose your scientific level-headedness at times, and you surrender to emotional reflections. They got me, I sometimes thought. I have devoted my life to fighting viruses and finally, they get their revenge. For a week I balanced between heaven and Earth, on the edge of what could have been the end.
Gryzemuis on 10/5/2020 at 10:15
Quote Posted by lowenz
100K? HELL NO, heparin is a life saver now that the basics of the infection->inflammation->wide microthrombosis process are known.
On April 12th, the US reached 20k deaths.
I asked the question: "who will reach 100k deaths first" ?
Lowenz thought is was unthinkable that any country would reach 100k death. "HELL NO".
Yesterday the US reached 80k covid-19 deaths.
(That's the official number. The real number is likely higher. Like everywhere in the world. Let's stick to the official number).
The number of daily deaths in the US is 2000 now.
There are no indications that this number is going down. In fact, the predictions are that it'll increase to 3k per day in June.
2k/day means that 10 days from now, the US will reach
100k deaths : May 19th.
Next question: will the US hit 200k deaths ?
"HELL NO" !!
Oh wait.
If the death-rate reaches 3000 deaths/day, that means 100k deaths per month.
If that number doesn't go down, it means the US will reach 800k by the end of the year.
To be honest, we don't know for sure that the number will go to 3000/day. We don't know if that number will go up, down, or stay at 3k. But it's important to realize a few things. We're all tired of covid-19. This thread is almost frozen. A month ago, all the news was about covid-19. Nowadays the news is only half about covid-19, half about other things. We're talking about how to return to normal life. But the covid-19 virus is not tired. It's a dumb thing. It's a virus. It does what it does. Next month, next year, the virus will be exactly the same as it was this month or last month. We're not at the end of this pandemic. Not even close. Only if we get a vaccine or a cure, that'll change the virus. But today, I still think we're only just past the initial phase. When countries are slowly opening, we'll see immediately how infectious this virus is. South Korea relaxed its lockdown-rules this week. And immediately the virus popped up.
In many European countries, the current talk is about how and when to start relaxing the rules. Let's watch that. Let's see what happens. But the US is a special case. The death-rate is still increasing, it hasn't gone down yet. The US hasn't even shown yet that they can bring the death-rate down, if they wanted to. But the US *doesn't want* to bring the death-rate down. The Republicans don't give a fuck. They care about two things: 1) money (aka "the economy") and 2) themselves (aka "the elections"). I can't think of a single reason why the death-rate in the US will go down this year. I can only think of reasons why it would go up (idiot Republican politicians and idiot Republican voters). The only reason I can think of that the death-rate/day might go down is when so many elderly and fat people have died, that the number of candidates of covid-19 deaths is decimated.
So my predictions:
100k deaths in the USA in May (May 20th or earlier)
200k deaths by the end of June, maybe somewhere half July
500k deaths or more by the end of the year
if the situation doesn't stay as it is, and gets worse, the USA can end up with 1 million deaths by the end of the year
Maybe I'm too pessimistic.
But I'm not unrealistic.
Have a nice day. :) And stay safe, everybody.
lowenz on 10/5/2020 at 12:28
If in US they can't avoid the ICU (=if they can't avoid the disease reaching its last *systemic* stage with the pneumonia as the tip of the iceberg) and continue to treat only the pneumonia after 2/3 weeks of fever going on, of course the deaths will not stop. As I've said you can't simply give oxygen to someone who has NOT space for the air in the lungs (all that space is occupated by blood, water and of course infection remnants).
Sometimes they CAN ventilate but they CAN'T breath.
Here in Italy ICUs are "empty" now but the early-untreated patients are still dying. You can't revert the last stage of this disease.
My uncle (81 yo, liver cancer) did survive, so I'll interview him when he'll feel well (he's @home now after 2 months of hospitalization, and he was never in need of ICU but always risking to enter that last lethal stage for weeks)
demagogue on 10/5/2020 at 13:03
Ugh, it's been 6 weeks now and I still have bad symptoms. Not all the time, but maybe 3-4 times a week I'm have a bad spell. Today I think is the first time since the first week I've had 2 spells in the same day though. It's slowly evolving too. It used to be my whole chest was having crazy butterflies and my heart would beat wildly, so I assumed it was basically a heart issue. But in the last few days things have kind of subsided, or at least become more centered, so now I can feel it's clearly coming from my right lung (and probably always has) and the heart and head stuff come later and out of that. And today especially, I mean right as I'm typing this, it's insanely itchy on the inside.
Still no coughing and I can hold my breath just fine (which confuses me, since most explanations of itchy lung always assume it comes with coughing), but this itch is crazy. When I'm at the worst of my spells, the first 30 minutes of 5-6 hour spells, my head and heart will copy the feeling, and they'll be very light and full of butterflies (for a few minutes, way too lightheaded for comfort), and I'm still getting a touch of the arrhythmia then. The thing is, though, it's been 6 weeks and this thing is still happening. Ugh. I want to chalk it up as a reason that this may not be the virus (until I get tested I can never be too sure), but I'm reading articles of people maintaining symptoms 7 weeks into it so... It's still in the cards, I guess.
I've read at least (
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1260545/coronavirus-symptoms-cases-uk-heavy-itchy-feeling-in-lungs) one case quite like mine now, the itchy lung, the heaviness, the chilled feeling, and the insatiable thirst and dryness that comes. But I don't have the cough, and she apparently doesn't have the arrhythmia. So there's still variation here. But reading something like that puts a few little weights on the "I got it" side of the scale.
I wish I could talk to people (trained people with medical degrees) that have experience with this whole thing that could give me a little insight about what I should be expecting and doing, because right now I'm just getting fragmented snippets of information and don't know how established they are, nor does it actually give me guidance what I should be doing in my state. This is our world now, though. At least it's not just me going through this. I feel like in a few weeks, people are going to start putting the pieces together and we'll collectively have a much better idea of what we're dealing with.
lowenz on 10/5/2020 at 13:24
All the lasting symptoms are related to how and when the overreacting immune system goes normal again and stop targeting the body.
demagogue on 10/5/2020 at 16:17
By the way, my one major piece of advice for everyone, if you do get something like this where it feels like something is burrowing around in your lungs, whatever you do, don't watch the movie Prospect, and don't watch the movie Annihilation, and for goodness sake above all don't watch the movie Prospect then Annihilation back to back!! I would have been paranoid watching those movies without my condition, but with it I was full-on :wot:
