Renzatic on 8/4/2020 at 21:33
Don't be smug, Lowenz. I'm getting really tired of unnecessary and entirely unearned smugness at the moment, and I have nothing better to do with my time than my job here.
We know coronavirus can lead to various disparate symptoms beyond the usual cases. It's an infection that puts a massive strain on the body, and the fallout from it isn't confined solely to the lungs. We know. We're aware. You don't need to continually remind of this again and again and again.
lowenz on 8/4/2020 at 21:48
Quote Posted by SubJeff
and this virus is really special because of it.
Never said that.
What I say it's valid for
every virus, there's nothing "special" about this one.
The problem here it's the "
social scenic bias" of the patients in ICU that focuses the attention of us (?) all to the respiratory failure (because of course there is that failure in many many cases).
THAT is the "misinformation" - misinterpretation - at diagnostic level.
Everyone thinks about the pneumonia but not about some peculiar aspects of it that can show the real systemic extension of this syndrome.
And I don't mean the good physicians (I hope), I mean "people" searching for infos on the web about "Covid-19".
Do NOT oversimply the syndrome only because the majority of the people die cause of the respiratory failure. There's all the (non)expression in the so-called asymptomatic (=subclinical expression) patients too that must NOT be oversimplified only because an infected feels good (no fever, no cough, no lethargy 'cause there's no hard involvement of the lungs)
Welcome back ;)
SubJeff on 8/4/2020 at 21:48
That's a classic example. It's terrible journalism - the headline says heart attacks and then they talk about calls for cardiac arrests. These aren't the same things. A heart attack can cause cardiac arrest, but get your terminology right. The article is fluffy enough that it doesn't conflate the two, but it's anything but clear.
The article then goes on to say "fatal or near-fatal heart attacks suffered by New Yorkers whose true health issue may be COVID-19."
Additionally, one of the causes of cardiac arrest is hypoxia. I'll leave it you to work out which organ might be implicated there.
Finally - this isn't research, there are no conclusive facts.
And someone is smug about this? Oh lawd
Edit: I only looked at your post to see what Renz was replying to. I'll not bother again as you just prove yourself over and over.
Take care. Addio.
Renzatic on 8/4/2020 at 21:57
Quote Posted by lowenz
Do NOT oversimply the syndrome only because the majority of the people die cause of the respiratory failure.
No one is oversimplifying this. The problem is that you're overly concerned that they might be.
Gryzemuis on 8/4/2020 at 21:58
Long time ago, I used to work with some people who were considered "world experts". Really, the top people in the world in the field I was working in at the time. One funny thing I now realize is: when I talked to them, they asked me as many questions as I asked them.
My point is not "look at me, how smart I was". My point is: the real experts are posing questions all the time. Even when they are the expert, they still doubt every detail they know. They constantly want to learn from others. They constantly want to check with others if what they're saying or thinking, is actually true. When they explained something to me, they constantly told me the circumstances, the variables, the assumptions they are making when explaining/creating/learning a theory. Always asking, always wanting to learn, always verifying.
I don't think I've seen anyone here on ttlg ever ask a question ....
Gryzemuis on 8/4/2020 at 22:11
And to cheer everybody up a bit, here is a video about a bear trying to make the world a better place.
[video=youtube;pGgM3c1e8vQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGgM3c1e8vQ[/video]
Renzatic on 8/4/2020 at 22:12
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I don't think I've seen anyone here on ttlg ever ask a question ....
Probably because most people in this thread aren't claiming to be experts on anything. We mostly relay information from sources we trust, and discuss things from there.
Gryzemuis on 8/4/2020 at 23:02
My point was: asking questions, having doubts, wondering about things, understanding that your knowledge or opinion is limited, are all part of normal discussion. Only "relaying information" and making statements is not a real discussion, imho.
It's just an observation. Of course I've visited other fora before. E.g. I sometimes check a few Reddit forums (I don't have a Reddit account, to make sure I won't waste time posting there). And tbh, most posters on those fora act the same as the ttlg-posters here on CommChat. Or a lot worse even. Especially since Trump got elected. (Trump's election seems to have brought a lot of vermin out of the woodwork on some forums. (I'm not talking about ttlg here. Life is a lot better here)). Anyway, life here is still 100% better than when WhatsHisName was around. :)
SubJeff on 8/4/2020 at 23:02
We've no idea what is going to happen. Really. I don't trust the figures coming out of China and the rates of mortality, in different sub-groups especially, is so variable as to be practically unpredictable.
I don't think we can ask questions because right now it's just information gathering and there is little concrete information.
You could have predicted that St Thomas' Hospital (where Boris is) would be important in treating Covid. I wouldn't have predicted that all elective surgery and all research would be halted though. Or that the Excel would be turned into a massive Covid hospital. Or that so many idiots would break the isolation rules.
Okay, that last one was probably a safe bet.
Gryzemuis on 8/4/2020 at 23:39
One thing we're doing here in NL. We have a new tv-program called "messages from the frontlines".
It is broadcasted every night around 22:00 or so. It lasts only 15 minutes. During these 15 minutes, we are shown short messages from people working in the health sector. Doctors and nurses about their daily work. Lung-specialists explain how ventilators work. Anesthetists explaining how they control people on ventilators. GPs talking about the shortages of PPE. People in nursing homes talking about how hard their work has become, and how hard life in those homes have become (less time per client, stuff can't be done because of the 6 feet distance, no more outside visitors, etc). The guy in charge of an ICU talking about how he's trying to keep the ICU working. Etc, etc.
All these messages are recorded by the doctors and nurses and others themselves, on their own phones. Some of them talk about how tired they are. Or how it is emotionally draining them.
I think it's a very useful tv-show. It shows directly the impact the corona-crisis has. Not only on the patients. But also on the healthcare system. And on the people working in hospitals, homes, GPs, etc. It's easy to only watch the talking heads on tv talk about numbers and scenarios. But seeing doctors and nurses fully dressed up, in hospitals that are full with beds and full with patients, that makes a real impact. I hope it helps the general public realize how serious this is.
Do other countries do the same ?
Or is the corona-crisis shown as an abstract thing, like most other crises ? (War in the middle-east, virus in china, hunger in africa, who cares these days ?).
