Tony_Tarantula on 2/4/2020 at 21:39
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Why am I not surprised.
You don't say!
What scale are you using?
Oh boy.
mmmhmmmm
You know what Chinese medicine with real evidence behind it is called, right? I'll tell you. It's medicine.
Welp. Let's wrap it up boys. Vitamin C and Elderberry. That's it. This man has saved humanity.
Funny how You're mysteriously immune from Renzatic's threat to ban people who keep throwing around the insults.
It's not me saying it. Go read the medical journals yourself.
I even gave you link to papers outlining the specific benefit and you couldn't be assed to read them, and instead prefer to attack this bizarre strawman you've set up. Whatever lets you pat yourself on the back for being super smart I guess though.
If you insist on denying settled science that's your prerogative and you're the one who will bear the greater risk of dying as a result of your own willful ignorance. You really SHOULD read the medical journals yourself (but you won't, because it requires more work than snark and narcissism) because you're one of those boomers who is likely to be killed off by this thing if you get it.
lowenz on 2/4/2020 at 21:40
Quote Posted by heywood
I guess was wrong about Navy readiness being relatively insulated from disease outbreaks
This thing is on another level of contagiousness thanks to the subclinical symptoms.
Tony_Tarantula on 2/4/2020 at 21:45
To clarify,
Nobody is claiming Vitamin C and Elderberry are cures. That's one of your weird-ass projections.
What they do accomplish (See the peer reviewed studies from Chinese doctors) is that they reduce the symptoms. That's extremely important because it can mean you stay on the right side of the line between recovering at home and needing to make a hospital visit that kills you.
SubJeff on 2/4/2020 at 22:06
Tony, I have you on ignore. I made the mistake of opening one of your messages to see what you're coming out with these days. No surprises. Anyway, that's how we get into this. But I don't see any paper you've linked to and the only link in your posts is concerning Elderberries, and that link doesn't work.
The difference between you and I is I know how to read a medical journal. I also know that information in journals doesn't usually constitute an expert recommendation. You get those by other means. Its great that so many journals are free to read, but there's the slight danger that people take things the wrong way.
Oh, and I'm a Generation Xer. You?
SubJeff on 2/4/2020 at 22:14
Aaaanyway.
Week 3 of isolation.
We have daily chats, at least 2, with family in Other Places, via video call of some sort. I use WhatsApp but my wife uses that and Skype. It's odd, but it works.
I've managed to order some more household essentials for delivery via Ocado, which is amazing. I got priority access because I'm a regular user I guess. No eggs though. Amazing and disappointing.
The rest of the lockdown seems to be okay. One of our neighbours is too friendly for lockdown and I'm wary that he'll come too close if we meet outside so I've been actively avoiding him. Shame, he's a nice guy usually but lockdown is lockdown and social distancing is the Law right now.
Numbers still increasing in the UK but I'm hoping we can ride this out. Provided things stay the same as they are now, I think we'll be fine. I'm still hoping to plant a load of vegetables this weekend if I can get some resources for it. If it works out it might be my new thing.
Weather is getting better and it's almost cycle season for me. Except asshats seem to be using my usual track for walking in non-socially distancing groups and if there's one thing worse than getting Covid-19, it's getting it of an idiot.
lowenz on 2/4/2020 at 22:26
Maybe Tony can't realize that ICU reanimation practice too is NOT a "cure" but a life support strategy to enable your own body to recover from the unforeseen consequences (Hello Gordon!) of an excessive inflammation state of the lungs in response to the infection/pathogen.
Tony_Tarantula on 2/4/2020 at 23:42
Here's a US media article titled "New York Hospitals treating corona patients with Vitamin C" (
https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/)
On Elderberry here's one sample article demonstrating some antiviral capabilities. (
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4848651/)
Disclaimer is that it doesn't seem to be too clear yet on how the stuff interacts with COVID 19 specifically, (different docs saying different things with Eastern/Chinese more likely to say yes and American more likely to say no) but it does have an anti-viral effect that's well established and there is literature available if you're looking at how it interacts with SARS.
Is that good enough for you?
Note that I didn't say that I was "genius" and knew the right thing to do. It was kind of accidental and I wouldn't have thought twice about it if this thing hadn't blown up later.
***
Quote:
Maybe Tony can't realize that ICU reanimation practice too is NOT a "cure" but a life support strategy to enable your own body to recover from the unforeseen consequences (Hello Gordon!) of an excessive inflammation state of the lungs in response to the infection/pathogen.
Iowenz right now:
Inline Image:
https://static.makeuseof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/very-smart-670x335.jpgYou're tilting at imaginary strawman windmills. It seems weird to me but more power to you I guess.
*****
Anyways our WONDERFUL New Jersey Governor last week ordered private businesses to disclose how many items of PPE they had on hand. He promised that this was just to gauge readiness and that this information wouldn't be used for confiscation.
Today: "We're sending the police to confiscate your PPE".
(
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/04/02/coronavirus-nj-gov-orders-state-police-to-commandeer-needed-medical-supplies/)
So yeah. Make that ANOTHER instance of "amazing leaders" lying their asses off brazenly. Kind of like how the CDC insisted for weeks that Masks were useless.
Tony_Tarantula on 2/4/2020 at 23:57
Adding a quote for the benefit of those who refuse to click on
Quote:
Seriously sick coronavirus patients in New York state's largest hospital system are being given massive doses of vitamin C — based on promising reports that it's helped people in hard-hit China, The Post has learned.
Dr. Andrew G. Weber, a pulmonologist and critical-care specialist affiliated with two Northwell Health facilities on Long Island, said his intensive-care patients with the coronavirus immediately receive 1,500 milligrams of intravenous vitamin C.
Identical amounts of the powerful antioxidant are then readministered three or four times a day, he said.
Each dose is more than 16 times the National Institutes of Health's daily recommended dietary allowance of vitamin C, which is just 90 milligrams for adult men and 75 milligrams for adult women.
The regimen is based on experimental treatments administered to people with the coronavirus in Shanghai, China, Weber said.
Enlarge ImageDr. Andrew G. Weber
Dr. Andrew G. WeberLinkedIn
“The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get vitamin C,” he said.
“It helps a tremendous amount, but it is not highlighted because it's not a sexy drug.”
A spokesman for Northwell — which operates 23 hospitals, including Lenox Hill Hospital on Manhattan's Upper East Side — said vitamin C was being “widely used” as a coronavirus treatment throughout the system, but noted that medication protocols varied from patient to patient.
“As the clinician decides,” spokesman Jason Molinet said.
About 700 patients are being treated for coronavirus across the hospital network, Molinet said, but it's unclear how many are getting the vitamin C treatment.
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The vitamin C is administered in addition to such medicines as the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, the antibiotic azithromycin, various biologics and blood thinners, Weber said.
lowenz on 3/4/2020 at 00:12
It' "L"owenz, not "I"owenz :/
Are you very smart, aren't you? :D