Vae on 25/5/2018 at 00:11
Quote Posted by Starker
North Korea was never seeking peace with the US or to give up their nuclear weapons. They want the US to recognise them and treat them as equals and to appear strong, especially internally. And Lord Dampnut has delivered in spades.
He certainly has...
Current Trump negotiation status:
- American hostages have been returned.
- The tension between North Korea, South Korea, and Japan is deescalating.
...and now
- North Korea has dismantled their nuclear testing site.
[video=youtube;8UHn9X6Cd5c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UHn9X6Cd5c[/video]
I predict with a high degree of certainty that North Korea will plead for the summit to commence, due to the tactical use of the "letter of cancellation".
...and as such, this will play into Trump's negotiation strategy.
Starker on 25/5/2018 at 00:16
Ha, "tactical use". Good one. And "negotiation strategy", even better.
North Korea releasing prisoners is nothing for them. Obama negotiated the release of prisoners and even Clinton did that as late as in 2009.
Renzatic on 25/5/2018 at 00:26
Trump's success thus far with the North Koreans isn't unprecedented success. He's made the same inroads with the regime since, geez, H.W Bush? Agreement to a ceasefire? End to nuclear proliferation? A release of prisoners? Agreements to talks? This is all par for the course. It's what they do whenever they want something. Throw a tantrum, get some attention, make some concessions, get some food or financial support, end tantrum for 2-4 years. The formula should be well known by now.
The only difference here is Trump, and his tendency to scream I AM THE GREATEST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME each usual step of the way.
And I love how NK blowing up their testing facilities is being shown as a victory for Trump, when it's common knowledge that the site is heavily irradiated, and no longer usable. They're disposing of something that costs them nothing to dispose of, and they intended to dispose of anyway.
Starker on 25/5/2018 at 00:30
I remember when Bolton was critisising Obama for negotiating the release of prisoners. Now of course it's the best thing ever and people try to bend over backwards to praise Lord Dampnut for the same thing they damned Obama for.
Renzatic on 25/5/2018 at 00:56
That's the story of our current ills in a nutshell, isn't it?
It isn't what's done that's important. It's who does it that matters.
Starker on 25/5/2018 at 01:07
Quote Posted by Renzatic
You know, honestly, I kinda wish it'd happen. Regardless what you think of Comey, Obama, Hillary, et al., they're a professional bunch well versed in the law. The results of dragging them all up front of the wild, wooly, highly emotional Trumpist crowd would probably end up looking more like an attempt at a kangaroo court than it would be an official hearing.
...which is the reason why it'll never happen. It's not so much that these heinous people need to be brought to justice, so long as the idea that the idea that they're a bunch of heinous people is kept afloat among their hangers-on.
Speaking of which, just found this compilation that really captures this elaborate fantasy of a grand conspiracy against Lord Dampnut:
[video=youtube;Ijr2Jpf3GPY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijr2Jpf3GPY[/video]
Propaganda network doesn't even begin to describe it.
Starker on 25/5/2018 at 01:25
Quote Posted by Vae
Oh look what we have here...
Yes, and now North Korea looks like the aggrieved party. Stop trying to twist an international humiliation into a victory. And if Lord Dampnut agrees to resume the talks, he looks even more fickle.
On a related topic, here's an article about just a few of the foreign policy blunders Lord Dampnut's administration has made:
Quote:
(
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/trumps-reckoning-arrives/561209/)
When a president speaks, others hear. When he acts, he sets in motion a chain of reactions. When he selects one option, he precludes others.
This is why presidents are surrounded by elaborate staff systems to help them—and oblige them—to think through their words and actions.
If we impose tariffs on Chinese products, how might they retaliate? What's our next move after that?
If we want to pressure Iran more tightly than our predecessors, what buy-in will we need from other countries? What will they want in return?
What do we want from North Korea that we can realistically get?
Team Trump does not engage in exercises like this.
Team Trump does not do it because the president does not do it. His idea of foreign policy is to bark orders like an emperor, without thinking very hard about how to enforce compliance or what to do if compliance is not forthcoming.
The administration canceled the Iran deal without first gaining European, Chinese, Japanese, or Indian cooperation for new sanctions.
Trump started a trade war with China without any plan for response to the inevitable Chinese counter-moves.
He enthusiastically pounced on a possible U.S.-North Korea summit in the false belief that such a summit represented a huge concession to the United States rather than—correctly—a huge concession by the United States.
The result: China pushed back on trade, and Trump blinked and retreated. The whole world saw him blink and retreat. Having yielded to powerful China, Trump is now salving his ego with a plan for new tariffs on cars from Japan, Mexico, and Canada.
The result: The U.S. has abjured its right to inspect Iranian nuclear facilities without any workable plan to impose global sanctions instead. India and China each trade more with Iran than with the entirety of the European Union—and neither is very vulnerable to U.S. pressure.
The result: Having ridiculously inflated hopes of North Korean denuclearization, Trump is now engaged in another ridiculously undignified name-calling match with the North Korean dictator, alienating South Korean opinion by bellicose threats of war.
Vae on 25/5/2018 at 01:26
Your response illustrates your lack of understanding the art of negotiation and the expert use of leverage.
North Korea is not in position to play the "victim game", despite your ridiculous imaginings.
Ultimately, your bias filter won't save you from your illusions being shattered.
Renzatic on 25/5/2018 at 01:28
Quote Posted by Vae
Your response illustrates your lack of understanding the art of negotiation and the expert use of leverage.
And I'm sure you're a goddamn genius, knowledgeable in the art of all things talk good get deal.
Quote Posted by Vae
Ultimately, your bias filter won't save you from your illusions being shattered.
Have you ever noticed how the hardcore Trump fans tend to sound like culty moonie types?
The truth will be visited upon you soon, brother. When it deigns shine its light upon the benighted masses, everything you thought you once knew as truth will burn before the brilliance of its revelations. TRUMP TRAIN MOTHERFUCKKKKKEEERRRS! HELL YEAH!