demagogue on 3/11/2021 at 09:46
Replace the word boats with sea ice and he might actually be on to something. But if you're going to remove sea ice, I mean, where on land would you put it? A quick bit of research says there's about 6 million square miles of Arctic sea ice at its peak (it varies seasonally between 2-6M sq. miles)*, a bit under the area of Russia.** I.e., you'd need to make a lake 90% the size of Russia. So, yeah, good luck with that.
* The reason BTW why it can vary that much over a year is that melted sea ice doesn't change sea level; melted land ice does. That's where sea level rise comes from. But if you literally removed the sea ice, that would have an effect, of course.
** You wouldn't remove the full lot of sea ice. The projection for sea level rise by 2050 is 20 cm. Then you'd compute the volume of water that is. Then you'd compute the mass of sea ice that'd represent. Then that would give you how many square miles of ice we're talking about. I'm sure it's far from the area of Russia. But I'm sure it's still a
very large area.
Edit: Okay FINE. I'll try to do the math. So Google tells me that the yearly average rise in sea level is 0.8mm a year, which amounts to 75.6 trillion gallons of water or 286 gigatonnes. (By the way, sea level rise is not only from melted land ice. There's also expansion from the heat itself. But we can fudge that for now.) Anyway, so 20 cm sea level rise would then be 1.89 quadrillion gallons or 7.15 tera-tons of water. Then ice weighs 919 kilogram per cubic meter. So ... uh, if we're doing envelope math, that's in batting range of just 1 tonne of ice. So that'd give you 7.15 trillion cubic meters or 7 billion cubic km. Um. Okay, now you have to convert from cubic km to sq miles of land ice, and if it's not going into the Arctic, it's going to be a fresh water lake. Putting aside the miles to km conversion and the fact that land ice is typically in the 2-3 km thick range, it's in the neighborhood of -- sorry did I imply it was going to be less than the area of Russia? It looks like it's more in the neighborhood of 3 orders of magnitude
more than the size of Russia. Now we're talking about a freshwater lake the size of ~100 Russias (or however much a square km of ice converts into a km area of a lake, er, I guess it's a freshwater sea at that point).
Is that right? Did I squeeze in any extra zeros somewhere? Anyway Google is (
https://www.quora.com/How-much-water-does-every-ship-in-the-world-displace) also telling me that all boats in the world would displace ~30 million tons of water. So ... 7,150,000,000,000,000 tons of water sea level rise - 30,000,000 tons of water displaced by all boats in the world = 7,149,999,970,000,000 more tons of water to go. But the math was saying that even removing all sea ice in the world would still leave you on the order of some 100s of times short. So it's removing all sea ice and then just flat out a few 100 times more ocean water by itself and dumping it all on land.
Edit2: Wait a second, back up, Russia is 11% of total world landmass by itself. If we know that that water is going to be
at least more than 1,100% world landmass (11% x 100), then there isn't even enough landmass on the world to hold all that water by at least a factor of ~10, if the whole point is to put it somewhere
other than in the ocean, unless we're talking about freezing it into ice that's more than 100km thick over the whole surface...
Well, it was worth a shot!
Cipheron on 3/11/2021 at 13:29
sea ice probably doesn't affect water level *at all*. not even a millimeter.
Think of it this way: a 100 ton iceberg puts 100 tons of pressure on the water below it. Replace that with 100 tons of water and it puts the *same* pressure on the water below that. So the 100 tons of water or ice has the same displacement.
It might be unintuitive because icebergs stick up out of the water. But ... ice is less dense than water, so the remaining part below the sea level takes up more volume than you'd expect. So if the ice melted then the top part goes away, but the bottom part also becomes more dense, and the sea level never changes.
Sure, you could tow the ice. But if you're doing that, just pump the water.
demagogue on 3/11/2021 at 15:07
Quote Posted by Cipheron
sea ice probably doesn't affect water level *at all*. not even a millimeter.
I said that, but to make it explicit, yes, if you measure the sea level with sea ice in the water vs melting that ice so it becomes water in the water does not affect the water level at all, not even a millimeter. That's how 4 million square miles of sea ice can melt and re-freeze over the course of an average year but the sea level never changes a bit because of that. (It changes a little because of the temperature & density differences.)
BUT taking the sea ice (or melted water) completely out of the ocean and on to land does affect the water level because, you know, you're literally taking water out of the water so there's less water. Remember the analogy it's supposed to be applying to was taking boats literally out of the water to drop the water level, not sinking them or moving them around, which also wouldn't affect the water level. Oh the Action Guy that makes science videos on Facebook explained it with a little tub & boat.
Edit: The whole reason I was talking about ice is because land ice melting and going into the ocean is actually the major cause of sea level rise. That's what we're supposed to be talking about. I just wanted to comment on that guy's stupid idea of taking out boats by being generous and thinking out a version of that that might do
something, and the only player in the game we have for that is sea ice. But the whole debate either way is still stupid to its core, so I shouldn't have really bothered. Really I just wanted to do some math to figure a thing like that out.
Briareos H on 3/11/2021 at 15:15
Quote Posted by Cipheron
*at all*
For icebergs, the level should rise a little bit as melting freshwater will reduce the overall density, but I assume this will be an insignificant fraction compared to land ice melting.
Starker on 3/11/2021 at 16:21
Well, it's not substantially more crazy than mainstream Qanon beliefs like mole children and whatnot.
Cipheron on 3/11/2021 at 21:55
Quote Posted by Briareos H
For icebergs, the level should rise a little bit as melting freshwater will reduce the overall density, but I assume this will be an insignificant fraction compared to land ice melting.
I took me a second to get that, but yeah I didn't consider salt content and that some of that would be from snowfall.
There was a thing where a Q person recently said that half the crowd was Undercover Deep State PsyOp, and the other half was "brain damaged". So they've got this down as an automatic response now any time a Q Op doesn't go to plan or a prediction fails.
First, the PsyOp angle must mean you're getting close. This is the more straight forward part.
Second, if you dismiss people as "brain damaged" for believing the more crazy stuff, then you get to say "i'm smart, i didn't fall for JFK Jr/Reptilians/Biden-is-Bigfoot". So what you DO believe is that much more likely to be the truth, right?
faetal on 4/11/2021 at 13:32
It's the extremes of cognitive dissonance. If reality and facts don't support your position, then reality and facts must be wrong.
Cipheron on 6/11/2021 at 04:54
At Dallas the other day, the original (103 year old dead person) JFK supposed to come back, anoint JFK Jr as Vice President, and eventually lead to Trump being one of the 'seven kings' and become the "king of kings" with JFK Jr as president of the USA. On top of that a plethora of dead celebrities were expected to rise from the graves like some sort of zombie superbowl halftime show. Kobe Byrant. Robin Williams. Tupac. Maybe a couple of others.
Which sort of hints at the lack of critical thinking here: so no alive people were involved in planning this? They're not also going to have Kanye or someone turn up? No stage, no security, no seating, no nothing?
When there was a no-show they decided that Robin Williams *did* really turn up: they photographed an old lady and said it was Robin Williams in his Mrs Doubtfire costume:
(
https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/qmxu2h/so_jfk_jr_didnt_show_up_but_robin_williams/)
After that someone convinced the crowd that JFK Jr would actually appear on stage at a nearby Rolling Stones concert, and that was the plan after all. After the crowd went to see the Rolling Stones and nothing happened, they're speculating that Keith Richards was really JFK Jr in disguise:
(
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/qnnhtz/qanon_believers_are_saying_keith_richards_is_jfk/)
Now here's the latest thing is that they're saying the *gregorian calendar* is a Deep State conspiracy. So they're claiming that when the clocks roll back for daylight savings, they're actually going to roll back all the way to the pre-1582 Julian Calendar. Which would make the date go back to about October 23rd. This is all so they can keep their "Red October" Trump return predictions going a bit longer.
(
https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/qnkbxy/time_will_tell/)
---
To celebrate all the no-shows, they ended up making an award for they guy who came up with this whole idea in the first place:
(
https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/qnm29x/this_is_the_idiot_who_first_predicted_that_jfk/)
Here's a story on him:
(
https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5qpe7/qanon-dallas-jfk-michael-brian-protzman-negative48)
I was going to quote from it but the whole thing really needs to be read to be believed. He's a straight-up neo-nazi holocaust denier that does Gemetria/numerology of the Bible and QDrops, and makes these predictions that his now thousands of followers are buying into. Naturally, he has a side hustle of bilking them for money.
---
Finally, this related stuff is just confusing:
(
https://crooksandliars.com/2021/11/qanon-meets-ancestrycom-and-insists-trump)
Quote:
M.L.: General Patton is the grandson of Abraham Lincoln.
MIKE PENNY: Lincoln, yeah.
M.L.: All right. General Patton had a brother which was Benito Mussolini as well who came -- so General Patton was the son of William Wallace Lincoln. Benito Mussolini was the son of Thomas "Tad" Lincoln, all right?
Joseph Kennedy, the older brother of John F. Kennedy, presumed dead in World War II, was not dead. He went into hiding for protection. He had children. Joseph Kennedy begat General Michael Flynn who happens to be first cousins to John-John and his siblings as well.
Trump is the biological son of General Patton which makes him first cousins to John-John and the Kennedys as well. It`s all about the bloodline! It`s all about the bloodline!
faetal on 6/11/2021 at 21:36
I something tainting the water supply over there?
This is some next level fucking idiocy.