Renzatic on 15/6/2019 at 19:15
Quote Posted by nbohr1more
Journalists accept info from foreign sources all the time.
The entire "Trump Dossier" is made of "Russian Information" accepted by the Clinton campaign.
Should "information" be "illegal to obtain and know"?
Go back to 2014 to see what we are really up against:
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQpTofvZJWU)
It should be clarified to include foreign governments, and those directly working for them.
What Hillary did involving FusionGPS was somewhat above board. She paid a US company to conduct opposition research, who contracted out their overseas work to an retired MI6 agent working in a personal capacity, who himself made contact with old associates in Russia to attempt to suss out any potential connections Trump may have to the Putin regime.
There was a basis for the suspicion. Trump had been courting Russian interests to expand his real estate empire, has borrowed money from them at certain points. The possibility that there could be a deeper connection, something he could be compromised over, was sound, and hey, it'd make for a few great campaign slogans. This was an investigation that started inwards, and expanded out. Domestic actors concerning themselves over the actions of other domestic actors in foreign territories.
What Trump's saying, or did say before walking it back, is that he'll take any information any foreign government happens to throw his way during our elections. On the surface, it doesn't seem that terrible, but you should ask yourself
why would a foreign government help one of our candidates over another? They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They obviously feel they'd have something to gain or lose in the whole affair, and so are now inserting themselves directly into our process. There are so many ways that this could be used and abused, all of it in no way directly pertaining to our own interests, that it shouldn't ever be allowed.
Starker on 15/6/2019 at 21:04
Also, it was a conservative website that hired the Fusion GPS first.
Furthermore, there's an obvious reason why it's legal to hire an American company to do research for you, but accepting help from a foreign government is not: if a foreign government does a favour for a candidate, they gain leverage over the candidate. For that reason alone, the Dampnut clan should have gone to the FBI. Instead, they kept it secret and tried to lie about it when they were found out.
And one more thing: American companies are subject to US law whereas foreign governments aren't. For example, Russia used its intelligence apparatus to hack into the DNC and tried to hack into Clinton's private server at Lord Dampnut's request. If it was Fusion GPS that did that, they'd already be facing consequences right now.
nbohr1more on 16/6/2019 at 04:19
Quote Posted by Nicker
If Clinton acted illegally she should be held to account
just like Trump needs to be.Enough Waddaboutims. Clinton isn't the issue. Trump has committed many blatant crimes. Trump & Associates continue to defy and dismantle the very protections intended to guard against their depredations. Trump is gearing up for a war to protect his personal interests and ego, based on fake evidence. Trump is an existential threat the the USA.
There is no IF about Clinton.
READ THE WIKILEAKS.
There are crimes literally signed by DKIM encryption right there. No need to breathlessly wait for someone like Mueller to "find them".
It's not whataboutism when one politician has "rumors" about "possible crimes" when another has DIGITAL PROOF of them.
I wont surrender First Amendment and Press Freedoms to contort the act of "listening to no-USA information" as an "act of treason" because
"Orange man bad".
We are free citizens and adults. The press should be reporting on information
wherever it comes from.We can
decide for ourselves whether the "RNC is just as bad but they didn't have any leaks".
People didn't refrain from voting for Hillary because they thought "Oh gosh, the RNC probably doesn't do ANYTHING as bad as what is in the DNC Wikileaks."
They refrained from voting for her because they
knew:
1)
THE DNC SHOULD HOLD ITSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAN THE RNC2) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE
CONDONING THEIR TREATMENT OF BERNIE SANDERS
3) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING AN UNHEALTHY ALLIANCE BETWEEN ALL MAINSTREAM NEWS MEDIA AND THE DNC
4) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING THE DNC FOR NOT FORCING HER TO WITHDRAW FROM THE RACE WHILE UNDER INVESTIGATION
5) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING THE DNC'S ASSISTANCE IN COVERING UP HER EMAIL INVESTIGATION
6) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING GOOGLE BEING USED AS A
PERSONAL NSA COLLECTION FOR THE DNC7) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING JOHN PODESTA'S CALL TO "MAKE AN EXAMPLE" OF LEAKERS
8) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING RICHARD BLUMENTHAL GAINING SIDE CHANNEL ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED PROGRAMS
9) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY, YOU ARE CONDONING THE DNC FOR REFUSING TO ALLOW THE FBI TO INVESTIGATE THEIR HACK AND USING CROWDSTRIKE INSTEAD
Trump is a "Mickey Mouse" protest vote.
He will be elected again unless all the above concerns are broached by law enforcement and the news media.
Trying to sell the US populace on "Trump should cover his ears if Russians say anything even if EVERYONE ELSE can easily
go onto the INTERNET and listen to this info." Is a dogshit anti-freedom argument.
It's also DOUBLY DOGSHIT since the our former NSA DIRECTOR "Bill Binney" has cyber-forensics that prove that the WIKILEAKS data
was locally leaked which contradicts Mueller's findings.
So add another to the list:
10) IF YOU VOTE FOR HILLARY (OR ANY DNC CANDIDATE), YOU ARE CONDONING THE FABRICATION OF A CYBERCRIME BY TECHNOLOGICALLY INCOMPETENTS
Renzatic on 16/6/2019 at 04:56
I'm honest to god getting sick of all the fucking crazy people who have popped up out of the woodwork since 2016. I know. I know. It's your time to shine. I get it.
But please, for the love of all things good and holy, TAKE YOUR GODDAMN PILLS!
Tocky on 17/6/2019 at 00:03
Yeah but nbohrmore is just quoting the half truths, propaganda, and sometimes outright lies of right wing media. Things like the investigation into Hillary being wrapped up by the election and her being cleared are completely missed by him but the actual lie came from conservative talk shows. Somehow those like nbohrmore lack the memory to recall that. It worries me that so many cannot retain the information that they hear but that is what the republican party preys on in addition to an outright hate of the left which has been cultivated by the right for decades. I wouldn't say he is crazy but more simply conditioned by the few news outlets he hears.
Also-
Quote Posted by Starker
Also, it was a conservative website that hired the Fusion GPS first.
Was Ted Cruze the one to hire Fusion GPS to investigate Trump? I only heard that once so it may not be true. Most news on it just says it was a conservative organization.
Nevermind. Not true. Looked it up on Wikipedia. It was a conservative website. See how easy that was nbohrmore? Just looked it right up to verify.
Oh and the DNC fired it's acting head for her attempted steerage of super delegates. It took responsibility. It acted. Way more honest than Trumps daily lies. Way more action towards correction than him on any issue. And by that I don't mean his next day recantings of stupid and immoral things he says.
Starker on 17/6/2019 at 00:43
Pollsters bad. Lord Dampnut sad.
Quote:
(
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/trump-campaign-cutting-ties-pollsters-after-internal-numbers-leaked-n1017991)
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump's re-election campaign is cutting ties with some of its own pollsters after leaked internal polling showed the president trailing former Vice President Joe Biden in critical 2020 battleground states, according to a person close to the campaign.
The move comes after NBC News obtained new details from a March internal poll that found Trump trailing Biden in 11 key states.
Portions of the campaign's expansive March polling trickled out in recent days in other news reports.
But a person familiar with the inner workings of the Trump campaign shared more details of the data with NBC News, showing the president trailing across swing states seen as essential to his path to re-election and in Democratic-leaning states where Republicans have looked to gain traction. The polls also show Trump underperforming in reliably red states that haven't been competitive for decades in presidential elections.
A separate person close to the Trump re-election team told NBC News Saturday that the campaign will be cutting ties with some of its pollsters in response to the information leaks, although the person did not elaborate as to which pollsters would be let go.
[...]
While the campaign tested other Democratic presidential candidates against Trump, Biden polled the best of the group, according the source.
In Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida and Michigan — three states where Trump edged Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton by narrow margins that proved decisive in his victory — Trump trails Biden by double-digits. In three of those states — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Florida — Biden's leads sit outside the poll's margin of error.
Trump is also behind the former vice president in Iowa by 7 points, in North Carolina by 8 points, in Virginia by 17 points, in Ohio by 1 point, in Georgia by 6 points, in Minnesota by 14 points, and in Maine by 15 points.
In Texas, where a Democratic presidential nominee hasn't won since President Jimmy Carter in 1976, Trump leads by just 2 points.
[...]
The president denied the existence of any negative polling during comments last week in the Oval Office, saying his campaign has “great internal polling” and saying the numbers reported were from “fake polls.”
[...]
Renzatic on 17/6/2019 at 01:22
Let Trump repeat the same mistakes Hillary's campaign did not even 3 full years ago. Take some things as a given, strategize poorly, and go on from there, assured of your own victory.
demagogue on 17/6/2019 at 03:17
In a way it's the same situation as 3 years ago. It's the Democrat's race to lose.
It's already getting mentioned a lot, but just to remind everyone of the numbers, Bush I's poll numbers jumped 18 points after he started Gulf War I, and Bush II's numbers jumped 13 points after he started Gulf War II. Looking at what Starker just posted, those are the kinds of numbers that might do the job, or that would at least make it sound like starting a war is a good idea to Individual #1. I don't think anyone, aside from his koolaide drinking cultists, think it's past him to care more about salving his ego than what's in the best interest of the country even on a matter as serious as a war. The situation is practically begging for it. :sweat:
Renzatic on 17/6/2019 at 03:35
I rarely see even the most hardcore of the koolaid drinking cultists commenting on it. If Trump were to try for war anyway in an attempt to bolster his standing in the polls, especially given the way this particular narrative has fallen apart over the last couple of days, it'd be a tremendous gamble on his part.
His only hope would be that the act of involving ourselves in a war, not the justification of it, would be enough to spur on a rally behind the president.
Renzatic on 17/6/2019 at 03:40
Though with that said, I give it a 70% chance we don't go to war. The Trump administration could be attempting to maneuver things around to force Iran on some issue or another.
Always remember that Trump isn't quite as stupid as we think, and he's surrounded by some pretty clever, if not immoral people. He could be attempting a renegotiation of Iran's nuclear arms treaty under duress with his name attached to it, all in an attempt to further smear Obama's legacy.