inn-sidious on 16/2/2018 at 11:51
Quote Posted by demagogue
McCarthy was Republican. Reps from that era were afraid of a socialist infiltration. Russia today isn't socialist; it's kleptocracy. The Dems were a stone's throw away from nominating a literal Socialist as their nominee in the last election. They don't like kleptoratic capitalism, or anyway the authoritarianism of Putin. (Reps today, and Trump definitely, has a hard on for authoritarians, Putin, Duterte, et al.) There were actual Russian spies in the US gov't in the 50s, but they weren't everywhere, and the fear of them was being used to harass people they didn't like (like gays in the military in the case that actually brought him down) which is what made McCarthy the symbol of malicious paranoia. Today there aren't as many Russian spies in the US gov't, but Trump has a long history with Russian oligarchic mafiosos. Dems today aren't paranoid about Russians everywhere, only concerned based on already irrefutable evidence of their infiltration in the US election and with the Trump campaign. Nice try though.
Edit: I mean have you ever watched any mafia movie ever? Trump is in the construction industry and builds massive projects in Russia. Mafia run the construction industry, and above all in Russia. Saying you can become a billionaire in construction and *not* deal with the mafia is the claim that stretches credibility.
The only evidence for Russian infiltration into the US election shown thus far has been a couple of facebook ads seen by at *most* a few hundred thousand people. Hardly a smoking gun. The other point is really just "Trump is bad mans and has some shady business ties".
demagogue on 16/2/2018 at 13:38
It really doesn't matter. If there's an impeachment process, the basis is going to be obstruction of justice, Trump taking steps to shut down the investigation. He doesn't even go to any effort to make his actions look like anything *except* explicitly trying to shut down a criminal investigation because he doesn't want to be under the scrutiny. Behind that may well be that Trump doesn't want them prying into evidence that his campaign actively solicited Russian assistance, or that he's being blackmailed by oligarchs. But even none of that actually matters, nor what any Russians actually did. The obstruction of justice claim should be enough by itself.
heywood on 16/2/2018 at 14:13
OK, so the Russians basically did nothing.
Or they created a Manchurian Candidate and threw the election to him.
Or maybe it's just that two individuals and their organizations who were a little short on values and a little long on opportunism hoped to take advantage of each other and played off each other's signals.
Or maybe something in between all that. We don't see the raw intelligence, not even the summarized intelligence, which we might not believe anyway, so we're left to guess or just believe whichever untrustworthy source suits our viewpoint.
I'm not particularly concerned about Russia astroturfing social media. Everybody is doing that. And if Russia wanted to officially endorse a candidate in a US election, they are free to do that. The thing that concerns me a lot is the possibility of a cyber attack manipulating the voter rolls or the vote itself.
inn-sidious on 16/2/2018 at 15:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah, show me da money. :cool:
Tocky on 16/2/2018 at 17:10
Quote Posted by inn-sidious
Yeah, yeah, yeah, show me da money. :cool:
You already have been and although there is no reason to think the money is counterfeit and is shown as real by multiple sources and government agencies you refuse to believe what is before your eyes. YOU are a brainwashed true believer in Trump and right wing media.
inn-sidious on 16/2/2018 at 17:52
Better get one of those MAGA hats then. I don't think they sell them over here though.
nickie on 16/2/2018 at 18:04
(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43092085) Thirteen Russians have been charged with interfering in US 2016 election, a major development in FBI investigation
And that's all the available (to me) info at the moment.
Goldmoon Dawn on 16/2/2018 at 18:17
Quote Posted by demagogue
Behind that may well be that Trump doesn't want them prying into evidence that his campaign actively solicited Russian assistance, or that he's being blackmailed by oligarchs. But even none of that actually matters
You think Trump is being blackmailed by oligarchs?!?!
Wow dema, I mean wow, I would LOVE to see *those* links!
Yeah, I get it, youre just "speculating", but this is how it works guys. You "speculate" whatever your agenda happens to be, and PEOPLE LISTEN, regardless of whether it is based on real information, or just mere speculation. Now you will have clueless morons, anons from TTLG, walking around reciting demas biased speculative agenda as if it was... real.
Unless of course, there are... links?
:)
Oh yeah, it was kind of hard for Trump to lose, did you SEE who he ran against?!
lmao all the way
Renzatic on 16/2/2018 at 18:19
The desperate flailing of a person backed into a corner. Don't worry, Gold. There's still very little that
directly damns Trump. It merely fingers all the people he chose to surround himself with.
Oh, and let's not forget Padapolis admitting of knowing of Russian tampering with the DNC, and having information gleamed from said tampering long before it became public knowledge.
Edit: (
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/374233-russians-charged-with-interfering-in-us-elections) Here's a more up-to-date report of current breaking news, expanding upon Nickie's link above.