Starker on 27/1/2025 at 17:31
I mean, you say that, but you have to sell that crops somewhere also. The markets set some limits on how much you can grow certain things. And these kinds of things are usually not done by small-scale farmers, but big factory farms and the like.
RippedPhreak on 27/1/2025 at 17:42
The big factory farms are probably rolling in money from paying slave wages to illegal migrants. They deserve to be cut down a peg and forced to hire Americans for a living wage.
"Oh no the CEO only gets to buy one yacht this year instead of two!" :tsktsk:
Starker on 27/1/2025 at 17:51
I would not worry a bit about corporate farming. They will always find a way to cut costs and corners to squeeze out that extra dollar somewhere. What I'm talking about is the smaller businesses that depend on seasonal labour especially. The idea that US citizens will simply come and take these jobs and get paid way more is a fantasy. From my own experience, I can tell you that it's incredibly difficult to lure someone from the city to come to work in a rural area. They will take a job as a server at a restaurant or stack crates in a warehouse even if they get paid less. And there's simply not enough people in the countryside.
Cipheron on 27/1/2025 at 17:51
It seems more plausible that independent farms are going to end up against the wall and be bought out by agri-business and hedge funds, who heavily donated to Trump. Securities firms paid about 30% of the total cost of Trump's election including PACs, so he's friends with the people who run stuff like that.
(
https://readsludge.com/2024/10/09/here-are-trumps-investment-industry-donors/)
CradleCity on 27/1/2025 at 17:59
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
"Without our slaves, who the hell is gonna pick the cotton?" - CradleCity, Alabama plantation owner, 1861.
If these people are so hard-working, their home countries would already be awesome places to live, and they wouldn't be migrating. They have nothing to offer us. And it's not their land. They have no position to demand anything from us.
Your attempt at comedy doesn't work. Find a more original joke. You forgot the part in one of my comments where I said Americans and immigrants should be paid equally.
They are hard-working, but corruption and clientelism has not given them avenues to advance in their home country. Same way all immigrants came to the US throughout the centuries (including your ancestors). It used to not be your land, either.
Again, I'm fine with you going after employers. Not the workers, for they are not your enemies.
RippedPhreak on 27/1/2025 at 18:07
Do you understand what scab labor is?
And I don't want them to advance here. I want Americans to advance. We owe them nothing, and they have NO right to demand to come here against our wishes.
Even if the migrants themselves have the best intentions, their mere presence allows employers to pay Americans less money. It's a little hard to tell your boss "give me a raise or I walk out the door" when there are new migrants lined up all down the street waiting to get your job.
Plus their presence puts a strain on systems like hospitals and school class sizes (especially if they don't speak English). And they all need housing, so they drive up housing and food prices too.
Starker on 27/1/2025 at 18:26
Except immigrants also pay taxes and don't get many of the services.
heywood on 27/1/2025 at 18:26
If we can't afford seasonal labor, we will find a way to farm without it. Labor shortages always drive productivity improvements through automation. That's the story of human history.
Some farms will become less profitable, and more automation will require farmers to make bigger investments in equipment. That will drive consolidation and increase corporate farming.
Things like cherries and peppers and walnuts will go up in price and we'll adjust our eating habits accordingly. We'll grow less cotton here and import more cotton textiles. We'll produce more products that are amenable to export like grains, at less profit.
Arable land will not sit unused while the world's population grows. That is one thing I can guarantee.
CradleCity on 27/1/2025 at 19:12
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
Do you understand what scab labor is?
And I don't want them to advance here. I want Americans to advance. We owe them nothing, and they have NO right to demand to come here against our wishes.
Perfectly. Irish Americans and Italian Americans were treated with that same (or similar, or worse) expression. And yet, they integrated, and no one questions the 'American-ess' of their descendants (much the same way no one questions your America-ness, even though you're just as much a descendant of immigrants as them).
Which brings to my next question. You say you want Americans to advance. **Which Americans?** What's your demarcation line?
RippedPhreak on 27/1/2025 at 19:45
Whatever happened in the 1800s and early 1900s has no bearing on today. There is no rule that because we once had immigration we must continue it forever.
Secondly, Irish and Italians were coming when there was a lot of empty land available. That's a lot different than showing up to crowded cities where people are struggling to make ends meet and then demanding welfare benefits (paid for by the citizens who are already struggling).
As to where the line is, yes it is blurry but I guess we'll start with removing anyone who arrived in the last ten years and see if we're good to stop there.
