heywood on 17/7/2024 at 10:30
Quote Posted by Vae
This is incorrect.
What you fail to realize is that even though the alleged event occurred before he was in office, and was a personal matter,
the prosecution introduced evidence that was covered under presidential immunity in order to prove the case.
Because of this, the judge is obligated to declare a mistrial...and the case will never be tried again, because Trump will be president or he will be dead.
The error in your thinking = *All pieces of evidence introduced by the prosecution must have come from a time before Trump was president because the event occurred before he was president*
If you look at the evidence team Trump is pointing to, it has nothing to do with official business. There was a comment to Hope Hicks and some Tweets which occurred while he was President, but those were personal communications not related in any way to the duties of President.
Quote:
How do you know he stole classified documents?
Because he was caught red handed and bragging about it.
Vae on 17/7/2024 at 15:30
Quote Posted by heywood
If you look at the evidence team Trump is pointing to, it has nothing to do with official business. There was a comment to Hope Hicks and some Tweets which occurred while he was President, but those were personal communications not related in any way to the duties of President.
You will see that time will prove me correct on this one.
Quote Posted by heywood
Because he was caught red handed and bragging about it.
If you would, show me the source where Trump is bragging about stealing classified documents.
heywood on 17/7/2024 at 15:40
There is a voice recording of it. It hit the internet last year.
Nicker on 18/7/2024 at 03:23
Quote Posted by Vae
You will see that time will prove me correct on this one.
You may be right, that tRump will escape accountability, (once again, as he has done his entire life), but do you need to take such pleasure in it?
If he dodges the legal bullet, it's not because he's innocent. The evidence makes it clear that he has committed numerous, serious crimes. He will escape because a corrupt SCOTUS has engineered a series of perverse legal technicalities, specifically to favour tRump. They have done this largely to escape the looming consequences of their own corruption. How could this possibly be a good thing for the USA?
So I ask you again; why do you support a lying, thieving, rapist for president?
Draxil on 18/7/2024 at 11:40
Quote Posted by heywood
If you look at the evidence team Trump is pointing to, it has nothing to do with official business. There was a comment to Hope Hicks and some Tweets which occurred while he was President, but those were personal communications not related in any way to the duties of President.
Because he was caught red handed and bragging about it.
I think you're incorrect about which evidence Trump's team is contesting. From (
https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/07/after-supreme-court-decisions-judge-merchan-must-throw-out-trumps-convictions/) Andrew McCarthy
Quote:
Significantly, Bragg’s prosecutors tried one additional thing to have some thin reed on which to rest their FECA allegations against Trump. Hoffinger elicited from Cohen that then–President Trump assured him that the FECA “matter is going to be taken care of and the person, of course, who is going to be able to do it is [then–Attorney General] Jeff Sessions.” In testimony that lasted less than 30 seconds, Cohen related that he had imparted this information to Pecker in order to allay his fears after Pecker was contacted by the FEC in early 2018. (See transcript, pp. 3,576–77.)
To describe this testimony as fishy would be an insult to fish. By that late point in Cohen’s direct testimony, Hoffinger had drawn out the details of several conversations Cohen recalled having with Trump. Yet, she never got around to asking him about the circumstances — the words exchanged — when the president of the United States supposedly explained to Cohen that he was having the attorney general of the United States corruptly kill a FECA probe in which the president was implicated. Instead, the state elicited this critical Cohen-Trump conversation as an afterthought: Cohen recalled telling Pecker that Sessions would take care of “the matter”; then, Hoffinger asked why Cohen had said that, and Cohen curtly replied that Trump had told him so. No follow-up questions — Hoffinger just moved on to a new subject.
Perhaps she preferred not to linger long because the story makes no sense. Sessions controlled the Justice Department. At the time in question (early 2018), Pecker and Cohen were being contacted, not by the Justice Department, but by the FEC. In administrative state jargon, the FEC is an “independent” regulatory body. It is not controlled by the attorney general, or even by the president. (The president just nominates its members, who must be confirmed by the Senate.) While the DOJ handles criminal enforcement of FECA, the FEC is in charge of civil enforcement. Putting aside the fact that Sessions is a straight arrow (who famously recused himself from the Trump-Russia collusion probe to avoid even the appearance of doing Trump’s bidding), an attorney general has no power to kill an FEC enforcement action — as Brad Smith could have explained to the jury had Merchan permitted the defense to call him.
For present purposes, my main point is not that Cohen’s testimony about Sessions is not believable; nor is it that the testimony is too weak to establish Trump’s state of mind with respect to a FECA offense (quite apart from the dearth of evidence that FECA concerns had anything to do with Trump’s 2017 record-keeping). My point is that Merchan permitted the state to prove a criminal offense against the former president based on his performance of his official duties.
This was testimony about the president’s consultations with the Justice Department about the enforcement of federal election law. Ergo, we are not talking about the outer margins of presidential power. With respect to this exact subject — namely, a president’s discussions with Justice Department officials about the exercise of the executive branch’s prosecutorial discretion — the Supreme Court, in its just-issued Trump ruling, instructed that this is a core constitutional power. It is part of the “conclusive and preclusive” ambit of executive authority as to which a president has absolute immunity. And when presidents have such immunity for official acts, Chief Justice John Roberts’s majority opinion elaborated, such acts may not be alleged as crimes per se, nor may they be used by prosecutors as evidence of crimes.
Hence, to induce the jury to find Trump guilty, Bragg used evidence of official action for which Trump had absolute immunity. It is virtually the only evidence in the case from which it could be argued — however weakly — that Trump willfully schemed to flout FECA. Such guilty verdicts cannot stand. Merchan is obligated to vacate them.
heywood on 18/7/2024 at 12:41
The Hicks conversations and the Tweets were the two things called out in the defense motion to dismiss, not the Cohen testimony McCarthy is talking about.
Andrew McCarthy seems to think anything a President does in office is an official duty, including conspiring to cover up his own crime. I do not think SCOTUS intended such a blanket immunity for everything a President does. I think the purpose of the conversation is relevant, and the judge will have to consider whether the Tweets should count as official Presidential communications or Trump's personal communications. If I'm wrong and McCarthy is right, then the doomsayer hypotheticals like political assassinations are indeed covered by immunity. Imagine if the President could direct the Treasury to transfer $1B/month into his private account and cook the books to cover it up, and we couldn't prosecute him for it. All we can do is impeach him and kick him out of office, but he goes away scot-free all the richer. Do you really think the SCOTUS majority meant to enable that?
Nicker on 18/7/2024 at 18:35
Quote:
I do not think SCOTUS intended such a blanket immunity for everything a President does.
I think they hoped to avoided the appearance of blatant corruption of granting blanket immunity. Instead they by blocked the admission of almost all evidence which might be presented against tRump, in all cases.
heywood on 19/7/2024 at 00:07
The aggravating thing about this case is that it should have been a pair of misdemeanor charges resolved through a plea deal and never a political football. The case that really bugs me is the classified documents case.
demagogue on 19/7/2024 at 00:22
The Stormy case is a common low level felony, doctoring records, that probably wouldn't see jail time for a first conviction. I don't see Trump pleading out on it under normal circumstances anyway, so I don't think it's really as political football as some might think.
The wrinkle for the documents case is that Trump intentionally hid the documents after being ordered to turn them over, so there's a slam dunk obstruction charge in there now that he only has himself to blame for.
Of course the election interference cases are the most important ones, existentially speaking, as far as the whole rule of law and survival of democracy in America things go. It's somehow unimaginable that a candidate and his team could conspire and go to fantastic efforts to overturn an election at every stage of that election, from the top down to the individual districts, and the system doesn't have a legal response for that.
I'm also forgetting, what happened to charges for incitement for Jan. 6? That also seems like a pretty existentially important case to have tried.
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Edit: What a windbag this guy is. Such a rambling mess of a speech. Trump just said something to the effect of it's a shame that memorials to war heroes are being torn down. Lol, the only war memorials being torn down are for Confederate soldiers & officers. Luke warm applause. He doesn't even bother with the dog whistling. Oh thank goodness it's over now. Ah, now they're telling us this is the longest convention speech ever. Easy to believe. 90 minutes, sheesh. People were falling asleep to that. Salivating for the mass deportations of dark skinned people can only get you so far... He wants us to know the invasion, the tsunami isn't only from South America but Africa, Asia, and the Middle East as well!
Nicker on 19/7/2024 at 06:31
Did he read "The Snake"? Asking for a friend.
Did you really watch his entire speech, Dema? If so you are a better person woman man camera tv than me.