demagogue on 1/6/2024 at 01:38
I appreciate that you're referring to a legit legal argument, even if you're fishing it out and I'm not sure you're that invested in Article I or document fraud jurisprudence per se. But it's a lot better than a flat "no you're the crook" response, so props for that.
The first lens you gotta take is if any of those are grounds for reversal on appeal. Bad jury instructions is probably the most likely avenue they have (and that won't be too strong; e.g., most of the outs the defense set up for the jury they actually got, like they were instructed that they're allowed to throw out all of Michael Cohen's testimony if they believe his past lies fatally compromise his trustworthiness), but it's of course worth playing the arguments out. 1 & 2 won't be very strong if you can't link a bias to any actual decision made that improperly prejudiced the defendant.
The rest don't give you any legal grounds. The statue lets them hook the fraud to another offense; and that's what they did. It's unprecedented for this offense because it's factually unprecedented that a presidential candidate committed it (that went to trial). That's not a legal defense against it. It's not pushing against the text in any improper way. The practical finagling it took to construct the claim isn't a viable defense either. Lawyers finagle legal theories all the time, and when presidents are involved in a claim or possible charge, everything that happens will usually be legally unprecedented & tested for the first time the first time. That part is not unprecedented at all, but happens all the time.
Then it's up to the judge to decide if it's legally viable and the jury to decide on its merits. The best you can do is say the judge erred in not rendering summary judgment based on the law, but that's a hard sell with the statute they're given. (And if you want to say the jury erred, again the most if only viable route is the jury instructions. Once you concede those, it's hard to say they overstepped the instructions.)
Anyway, those are the two viable routes I think the defense has on appeal. I think they're long shots, but they're legally entitled to start an appeal on them, and I don't have all the evidence and briefs in front of me, so if I were actually deciding on it, I wouldn't just assume the outcome. I'd walk through everything like you're supposed to. The other thing to note is that these routes aren't part of any grand conspiracy that the people donating money are assuming must be there, but there's not even a hook for that for an appeal if they can't actually show what was prejudiced any where in the process, although if they find something, they can raise that on appeal too. It'd have to be something that no one's noticed yet, since it hasn't been reported yet and there's been a lot of scrutiny. E.g., it doesn't have the kind of profile like a case has when a jury member is bought off, or when a judge makes a transparently incorrect ruling based on bias or corruption...
But of course, evidence and not people's assumptions speak in the end.
Nicker on 1/6/2024 at 05:06
Quote Posted by Starker
He was also impeached for abuse of power and sedition.
And a judge in Colorado found that he had engaged in insurrection but left him on the ballot because she claimed the law was unclear on whether it applied to a president.
Hey Vae, are you going to address the fact that Trump is a career criminal or are you going to dig for procedural worms, which might hook a technicality, and let him escape consequences again?
Asking for a friend who thinks Orange Man Bad.
Nicker on 1/6/2024 at 15:01
One more thing. What tRump's conviction proves is that he STOLE THE PRESIDENCY in 2016. The reason the falsification of business records was prosecuted as a felony, not a misdemeanour, is because it was done to advance and cover-up a greater crime, election fraud.
We know that every accusation by MAGAts is a confession and this is the smoking and still loaded gun. This isn't about cooking the books, it is about silencing the voters.
demagogue on 1/6/2024 at 15:44
To be technical, the underlying crime that the falsification was covering up was the requirement to report campaign expenses.
Also you don't have to even prove the underlying crime, only that the falsification was an effort in that direction, but in this case they come basically hand in hand since we're talking about forms and filings.
It's a felony, but not the biggest one. It's his first offense, so it's doubtful he'd get the maximum 4 years. I'd say it's even likely he might get only probation, except that he went out of his way to insult the judge, like flagrantly violating his gag order and being openly unrepentant, and I think Trump is thinking a little jail time would actually give him a boost in the polls. So I think a little jail time is in the cards, maybe a few months.
lowenz on 1/6/2024 at 17:04
Quote Posted by demagogue
except that he went out of his way to insult the judge, like flagrantly violating his gag order and being openly unrepentant
Stupid narcissists can never play along.
It's not because they're sincere, it's because they can't grow up in a civil way.
And the majority of US citizens will vote for the tyrant meanwhile the majority of the russians did vote for the dictator. What a wonderful world democracy gave us :D
DuatDweller on 2/6/2024 at 09:44
So prepare for the assault, given the new support Trump gained, he is going for president again. Get a few painkillers, you might need them.
heywood on 2/6/2024 at 13:00
Bob Good is one of the core group of obstructionists that Trump would rather not have to negotiate with on close votes. He was also one of the holdouts who ousted Kevin McCarthy as House Speaker, and was already the primary target of a moderate Republican super-PAC. So this could just be Trump getting in line with the party mainstream and the revenge part was icing on the cake.
Nicker on 2/6/2024 at 17:18
People want to be in tRump's inner circle. What they don't understand is that there is no inner circle, only a diseased singularity. The Donald is a moral black-hole of such density, whatever moral vestiges his minions brought with them, will be stripped away as the sterile husks of their spent lives spiral inwards, unable to escape.
Not even his family is immune. To him there are only competitors, to avoid or beat, and prey for him to eat.
demagogue on 3/6/2024 at 00:09
To begin with people don't understand the Cluster B & NPD profile, which is even fair because it's very unintuitive and hard to understand.
There's an emotional cycle Trump's brain goes through that anyone that's had experience with a person with Narcissist Personality Disorder and has studied up on it so they understand what they saw will know very well. There's an idealiation stage where they turn up the charm and beg for a person to join the team, then once the emotional claws are in, there's a push and pull between disdain and charm to pull the person back in, then there's a merciless discard stage where he throws the person under the bus, and then goes out of his way to lash out against them in all out war for their betrayal.
It's pretty literally inevitable anyone trying to be a part of the team will be rung around that ringer. I mean at this point, it's crazy that a person trying to get on the team won't have noticed what happened to the whatever 80 some odd staff that have come before. Whatever though. For anyone to begin to understand it I figured out before it'd probably take about 6 hours to walk them through it, and for a lot of people, his core base, you're not going to be able get them through the first step in the walkthru because they're already hooked. There's a whole profile of those that get sucked into the NPD web and don't know how to disentangle themselves from it either that's also part of the story.
Edit: For what it's worth though, and I mean this as a sincere public service announcement to everyone, if you ever find yourself with an emotional investment in a person with a Cluster B profile such as Narcissist Personalty Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder, there's only one solution and that's total NC, absolute no contact. There is no negotiating with it, no hoping things will work out this time, no nothing to look forward to. You cut off all contact and don't even send so much as an emoji in a text. Trust the long and hard experience of those who know. Trump is no exception.
