SD on 26/12/2023 at 02:31
Neoconservatism as a movement grew out of the left; as Irving Kristol described them, "liberals mugged by reality".
I would not describe Haley as a neocon just because she is hawkish on foreign policy. Nevertheless, that does seem to be at odds with the isolationist currents which have prevailed in the Republican Party in recent years, as typefied by Donald Trump, that saw Afghanistan delivered back to the Taliban and empowered Putin to invade Ukraine.
Tocky on 26/12/2023 at 02:40
Of course to be hawkish these days just means you don't want Russia to take over the world. RED is conservative and RUSSIAN. Can't even back anyone with funds fighting them. They might not fund Republican candidates and swamp social media with conservative memes if you do.
RippedPhreak on 26/12/2023 at 02:41
As you said, I much prefer isolationism at this point. As opposed to pumping a trillion dollars into Ukraine only to see them lose anyway. Oh well, I'm sure Zelensky will be able to flee in his private jet (purchased with US taxpayer $$$) to continue the struggle from his dacha on Miami beach (purchased with US taxpayer $$$).
Staying in Afghanistan forever was pointless (unless you just want to control the opium poppy fields for some reason?) and wasn't going to happen anyway. Too bad the Biden admin botched the withdrawal.
Bottom line: these disputes between far-off foreign nations have nothing to do with us, and are mainly used as money-laundering opportunities by US politicians and their families.
lowenz on 26/12/2023 at 11:31
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
As you said, I much prefer isolationism at this point.
Can't be done if you want the "free market" (or something marketed as "free market") It's why there's nothing "conservative" in USA, because it's a system based on the market (
"rights" and "freedom" are the crowbar of the market). It's why far right liberals created the "libtard" concept to attack left liberals.
No society can be "isolated" today, see Russia depending on China 'til the point of become a China colony market-wise.
So you need involvement in Ukraine if you accept the market as your guiding light (or China will take your place)
RippedPhreak on 26/12/2023 at 15:54
We can trade with other countries without having hundreds of military bases in those countries or having multiple wars going on, or having infinite millions of migrants streaming across our borders. Isolationism doesn't mean "become North Korea."
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Of course to be hawkish these days just means you don't want Russia to take over the world.
This is just silly. Russia already lost one empire and has no ability to build a new one. If they try, they will exhaust their manpower, money and resources and fall apart again, just as the British Empire did. Just as the US Empire is doing right now.
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you need involvement in Ukraine if you accept the market as your guiding light (or China will take your place)
Printing trillion$ to shovel directly into Zelensky's offshore bank accounts (only for Ukraine to lose anyway), sending ships to help Israel, Houthis attacking US ships in the Red Sea, Iran starting to get frisky with drone attacks on commercial shipping, and 2 million unvetted migrants streaming across our borders every year and ending up in tents strewn all over New York, Chicago and other cities. The US will soon be stretched thin enough that China will see it's time to take Taiwan. That will most likely be the final blow to US prestige.
Nicker on 26/12/2023 at 20:10
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...or having infinite millions of migrants streaming across our borders.
Zombeh hoards!!! OMGz!!!!
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Russia already lost one empire and has no ability to build a new one.
You are aware they invaded Ukraine as another stepping stone towards restoring their lost empire? Right? Their expressed intention.
Putin poses a persistent, direct, global, existential threat to any form of government other than authoritarian rule. That's not an opinion.
Your brand of extravagant stupidity is a huge part of the problem, because it presently infects the government of the USA. But don't worry. The political cancer you represent will shortly be excised.
Starker on 26/12/2023 at 22:36
Very little US money is going to Ukraine. The vast majority of it is pumped into US defence industry and ends up in the US economy.
Also, the idea of Zelensky fleeing was effectively quashed during the first week of the invasion. If he didn't flee when tanks were on their way to Kyiv, why would he flee now that Russia has been trying and failing to conquer Ukraine for what... nearly two years into the 3 day war?
heywood on 27/12/2023 at 11:29
Neo-conservatives are classical liberals on the economy and trade, who lean into realism on diplomacy. They're traders who want to use military power to keep the rules in their favor. Neocons believe in the power of institutions and the rule of law. They tend to be religious and have conservative social values, but prefer to live in liberal systems because they were raised to value individual liberty. Liz Cheney is the current poster child, like her father before her. I think Nikki Haley is cut from the same cloth. Like Biden, she's nobody to get excited about. But she's not mentally ill either.
Tocky on 27/12/2023 at 15:14
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
This is just silly. Russia already lost one empire and has no ability to build a new one. If they try, they will exhaust their manpower, money and resources and fall apart again, just as the British Empire did. Just as the US Empire is doing right now.
Putin has made no secret of the fact he is expansionist. He has said it out loud. How you can ignore that in favor of just letting him get away with any damn thing he wants is very suspicious. Also the US does not have an empire to lose. That you think so is also very suspicious. It's a very Russian way of thinking. Just because the US does not want Russia putting together an empire does not mean we want to. And the only way we will fail is if we allow an authoritarian demagogue to control our policy via a nation which helped elect him, namely Russia.
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
Printing trillion$ to shovel directly into Zelensky's offshore bank accounts (only for Ukraine to lose anyway), sending ships to help Israel, Houthis attacking US ships in the Red Sea, Iran starting to get frisky with drone attacks on commercial shipping, and 2 million unvetted migrants streaming across our borders every year and ending up in tents strewn all over New York, Chicago and other cities. The US will soon be stretched thin enough that China will see it's time to take Taiwan. That will most likely be the final blow to US prestige.
This is just ridiculous. It's not what is being done. It's a propaganda so straight from Russia Putin may as well be using your mouth. All this does is show that Republicans are being run directly from the Kremlin. So is there anything else Putin wants you to say? Vote for Trump maybe?
ElCat on 28/12/2023 at 01:59
I LOVE TRUMP MUCH AS I LOVE GARRET THE MASTER THIEF ❤❤❤
