faetal on 29/1/2021 at 12:42
There is no "Antifa". It is a word which is short for anti fascist.
I'm anti fascism, so I am also antifa.
If you are asking if rioters who wear antifa slogans are hardline, then yes.
Being against fascism isn't hardline in any way.
Gryzemuis on 29/1/2021 at 13:16
The first-time I heard the name Antifa was somewhere in the early nineties. When I was living in Amsterdam. They were people around the country who felt it necessary to announce they didn't like fascists. I explicitly didn't say "group of people", because they weren't a group. Fringe of the fringe. Leftish people knew what Antifa was, but the general public had never heard of them. That's how small they were. At the time Antifa didn't do much, except protesting a bit here and there. But they had a reputation of being hardcore anti-establishment. Although more words than action.
Earlier, in the eighties, those people were called "the Autonomous". The Dutch wiki page points to (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomism) this english wiki-page. But international Autonomism seems earlier (70s), and much broader, than our local Dutch variant. The Dutch variant was mostly about (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomism#Germany) squatting in the eighties. In theory the Dutch variant was about being independent. But that's pretty much impossible when you live in a big city, and are on wellfare. I think the first Dutch Antifa people in the nineties were the earlier Autonomous hardcore from the eighties.
I think Antifa is more a label people put on themselves, to indicate they are "fighting the bad guys". Back in the nineties there was zero organization. I bet in the US there is zero organization too. And very little coherence. When it's clear who the bad guys are, they all stand together. When you ask harder questions, it will become obvious that they are not one block.
Briareos H on 29/1/2021 at 16:19
Quote:
I think Antifa is more a label people put on themselves, to indicate they are "fighting the bad guys". Back in the nineties there was zero organization. I bet in the US there is zero organization too. And very little coherence. When it's clear who the bad guys are, they all stand together. When you ask harder questions, it will become obvious that they are not one block.
This is where you are
wrong, Antifa is a very serious and well-coordinated entity with infinite reach. I mean look at this:
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/7UwYuhZ.jpgMore seriously yeah, that's exactly what Antifa is, a label -- without a central organisation -- for people to make it clear that they are okay with punching nazis in the street.
I don't doubt that there are local groups full of them, but they rarely meet
as Antifa, it's typically within the framework of far-left activism.
lowenz on 29/1/2021 at 19:19
Well """nazis""" shoot people in the (jew/muslim) streets so punching them in the streets is not so extreme :p
Quote Posted by faetal
There is no "Antifa". It is a word which is short for anti fascist.
I'm anti fascism, so I am also antifa.
If you are asking if rioters who wear antifa slogans are hardline, then yes.
Being against fascism isn't hardline in any way.
A part for the fascists, you
rebellious subversive rioter :p
You know fascists live in their hyperuranium-like world where's the "order" must have crystalline structure beginning from your mind.
Nutcases of course but really deeply drown in their own totalitarian delirium.
Pyrian on 29/1/2021 at 22:46
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Aren't antifa very hard-line of you don't share their exact point of view?
Their "exact point of view" is "fascism is bad".
Everyone should be hardline about that.
SubJeff on 29/1/2021 at 23:58
Quote Posted by faetal
There is no "Antifa". It is a word which is short for anti fascist.
I'm anti fascism, so I am also antifa.
If you are asking if rioters who wear antifa slogans are hardline, then yes.
Being against fascism isn't hardline in any way.
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Their "exact point of view" is "fascism is bad".
Everyone should be hardline about that.
Ummm, are you guys 100% sure this is the case?
I'm not saying they aren't anti facist, but I'm led to understand they have a more more anarchist bent them than that.
faetal on 30/1/2021 at 00:07
Who is "they" in your scenario?
Everyone who uses the phrase antifa as a political statement, or everyone who does so while perpetrating violence?
I feel like you are still using "they" as if antifa was an actual organisation.
Pyrian on 30/1/2021 at 01:45
Yeah. Antifa is literally just whoever who turned up to counter-protest fascist marches. Some of them are crazy. Most of them were just relatively ordinary people outraged that there was a neo-nazi march going on in their community.
Normally one defines a group based on what they have in common. Typically this can involve leadership and official documents, but antifa has neither.
lowenz on 30/1/2021 at 11:12
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Ummm, are you guys 100% sure this is the case?
I'm not saying they aren't anti facist, but I'm led to understand they have a more more anarchist bent them than that.
"Antifa" today is a word used by actual fascists and neonazis because they can't use their beloved "
subversive" without being laughed at and because they believe "democracy" (not a specific kind, the very same idea of democracy) is some kind of devilish sorcery put in your mind by freemansons as a counter-measure to the "righteous" totalitarian order they dream about (and someone among them live for).
So being "antifa" is being "
against the order we want put in the world, we're the good guys caring about the world and antifa are the bad guys wanting dissolution".
It's why in the far right propaganda that word is used as an insult, like being a danger for the community "spiritual" integrity and cohesion. It's not only simply a definition, it's an actual insult.
If you're a socially-good-behaving "antifa" you're a "libtard", moving like a good puppet at the freemansons hands following the "liberal" plans to the "dissolution" of a spiritual-communion-oriented society (the society fascists dream about being romantic spiritualists and idealists ).
That's today fascism in a nutshell (it's the classic Evola Fascism without any form of imperialism nor nationalism nor
enacted racism, but the nationalism and racism features can always show up - not so for the imperialism, that's gone for good).
demagogue on 2/2/2021 at 16:40
This article claims to describe (
https://www.axios.com/trump-oval-office-meeting-sidney-powell-a8e1e466-2e42-42d0-9cf1-26eb267f8723.html) Inside the craziest meeting of the Trump presidency, referring to a particularly unhinged meeting in December between crackpot conspiracy theorists, arguing for a proposal to place the US under martial law and confiscate states' balloting machines, and White House lawyers battling to keep Trump focused as he wasn't really paying attention, but anyway, clearly he sided with the crackpots because the election was totally stolen by Venezuela or Soros or whatever. I doubt this was the craziest meeting, and I couldn't even say it's the most fateful for the US, but it was a particularly crazy and fateful meeting anyway.
