Starker on 22/1/2021 at 13:53
As far as the symbolism of the inaugural poem recital is concerned, for me it was the opposite -- the bright colours and overall hopeful tone felt refreshing rather than inappropriate for the moment, a glimpse of looking forward to the future and a nice contrast amid the sea of grey and soberness. World-weariness is fine for the old, but optimism suits the young.
I think Democrats did pretty well with both the inauguration and their virtual convention, especially if you compare it with the hysterical tone of Republican convention and Lord Dampnut leaving to the tune of YMCA.
Kolya on 22/1/2021 at 14:40
Quote Posted by faetal
I think you guys are talking past each other.
Yes, it's better to deliver just the dry logic and have everything be based off of that (like, obviously), but people's emotions aren't going away, so it's obtuse to just pretend they aren't part of the landscape and to not engage with that.
It's obviously a balance and what I tried to point out is that the US are very far down the emotional scale from my point of view. Always have been and doesn't seem to get better, despite the complete reality-disconnect it has gotten to. The fuss about the flag, the pledge of allegiance, the general ignorance of the rest of the world, it's languages ideas and knowledge - this nationalism is deeply emotional and easy to manipulate. And despite your best intentions to use it for good, it is still very dangerous.
Because there is no such thing as good nationalism. As soon as you make the nation center point of whatever ideals and achievements you have, you're shifting their importance to an in-group of people (that's very heterogeneous and that you only belong to by random chance) with all the foreseeable results for the out-group. The question should be less about what it means to be an "American" and more about what has worked in the past and what is a good ideal to work towards to, regardless of the nation.
This is not technocracy. National identity won't vanish. But it doesn't need constant encouragement either.
faetal on 22/1/2021 at 15:29
I don't disagree, but if the side using emotion is gaining ground, and the other side are not convcinced that straight up logic / facts will turn things around, what to do?
Moral high ground is great, but not if it gives ground to white supremacists and their enablers.
Briareos H on 22/1/2021 at 15:33
I'm not sure the real issue is with emotion, but exceptionalism and identity as a claim (rather than as a statement of fact) are cancerous illusions that are too profound in the American way of thinking to be uprooted. More so as these are being exported as standard and widely acclaimed in the rest of the world. Biden's inauguration speech made me incredibly bitter.
lowenz on 22/1/2021 at 16:20
Quote Posted by Briareos H
I'm not sure the real issue is with emotion, but exceptionalism and identity as a claim (rather than as a statement of fact) are cancerous illusions that are too profound in the American way of thinking to be uprooted. More so as these are being exported as standard and widely acclaimed in the rest of the world. Biden's inauguration speech made me incredibly bitter.
Exactly.
But about the "emotions" aspect: blind rationalism is stupid cause people are not part of some theorem to prove each to another. There's no such thing as "hard facts" in human mind and the REAL delusion it's to think that they are.
Pyrian on 22/1/2021 at 23:17
Some anonymous goofball thinks he's clever.
Jason Moyer on 22/1/2021 at 23:42
Only in America would anti-fascism be something to be ashamed of. People here are so fucking stupid.
Starker on 23/1/2021 at 00:57
The time to breathe and take it easy is over, it seems. The Lincoln Project is going after the Sedition Caucus:
[video=youtube;BRbbzpw7CNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbbzpw7CNo[/video]
