Tomi on 8/1/2021 at 20:34
Quote Posted by Starker
The point is that if I saw a bunch of US police standing with drawn guns, I would not feel like I could walk towards them without seriously putting my life on the line. That woman who tried to barge through the window who got shot did just that. Did she just think nothing would happen? Does she not watch TV or something? Did she hope others would follow her sacrifice and charge the police? We will never know.
She obviously shouldn't have been so reckless and got herself killed for such a stupid thing, but perhaps she didn't fully realise the danger when some other cops earlier welcomed the terrorists with open arms. I don't think that it's acceptable to shoot anyone for just breaching a building, but that's America for you, I guess. And who knows, she may have been armed. Some of her friends certainly were.
Gryzemuis on 8/1/2021 at 20:37
I asked this on Wednesday. Nobody seemed to know then. I still haven't seen any estimate on the web.
Does anyone know how many people took part in the storming of the Capital? How many of those went into the building, and how many stayed outside? Just curious.
Starker on 8/1/2021 at 21:17
Quote Posted by Tomi
She obviously shouldn't have been so reckless and got herself killed for such a stupid thing, but perhaps she didn't fully realise the danger when some other cops earlier welcomed the terrorists with open arms. I don't think that it's acceptable to shoot anyone for just breaching a building, but that's America for you, I guess. And who knows, she may have been armed. Some of her friends certainly were.
The men who broke the windows clearly recognised the threat and fell back. One of them yells, "He's got a gun!" and another "It's about to get dirty, man!" immediately before she makes for the window.
faetal on 8/1/2021 at 21:49
If you stop responding to nbohr, he'll tire himself out and lose interest.
heywood on 8/1/2021 at 22:10
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I've read that the Capitol Hill Police has an annual budget of half a billion USD. That's the 10th largest budget of any police department in the US.
They were supposed to defend the leadership of the US. They acted like a bunch of mall-cops. But to be honest, I rather see the police act gentle with the crowd than fare war against them. I just wish they would also have acted that way in previous demonstrations (as Starker pointed out the difference). But once the mob started rattling at the doors of the building, the police should have stepped in, with violence as necessary.
In the news today, they said the entire available US Capitol police force was deployed, some ~1400 officers, and they were overwhelmed quickly. They were backed up by ~1000 DC police, and later the Virginia National Guard and state police, and the Maryland National Guard and state police. The Capitol police chief resigned in disgrace yesterday as did the Sergeants-at-Arms of both the House and Senate. They were unprepared, ready to manage a protest but not fend off a full-on attempt to penetrate the Capitol building. They were offered assistance ahead of time when planning for Wed, and they declined. They didn't have contingency plans, and didn't have a backup force ready. Naturally, Trump wasn't going to call for National Guard mobilization and a show of force by federal agents to deter his own mob. Not like he did for the BLM protests. I also heard that after the Capitol was breached, the White House dragged its feet for some time before authorizing the VA and MD National Guard to assist. But that doesn't excuse the Capitol police for turning down offers of help before the day started. That's inexcusable considering what was going around on right-wing sites leading up to the day.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I asked this on Wednesday. Nobody seemed to know then. I still haven't seen any estimate on the web.
Does anyone know how many people took part in the storming of the Capital? How many of those went into the building, and how many stayed outside? Just curious.
For the size of the crowd when Trump was speaking, I've heard estimates saying several thousand up to 10000. In his speech to the crowd, Trump claimed it was 100k+ and said the media would never show the full crowd, in order to downplay the number. But that's obviously BS. It's really hard to estimate because there were no aerial views.
Nobody knows how many people actually got in the building. I haven't seen an estimate. But supposedly it took 4 hours to clear the building, and it's a really big building.
Quote Posted by faetal
If you stop responding to nbohr, he'll tire himself out and lose interest.
Besides, what's the point in arguing with a bot?
Gryzemuis on 8/1/2021 at 22:19
Thanks Heywood. There is now a wiki-page about the storming of the Capitol.
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol)
The article is pretty clear, and calls a spade a spade. I've seen wiki-pages about political things that are clumsily trying to look neutral, and avoid mentioning anything that's not 100% proven. This page is pretty straight. However, even there there is no mention of the number of rioters.
lowenz on 8/1/2021 at 22:47
Quote Posted by Starker
Yes, absolutely. There was a lot of talk on Parler and places like that how the 6th was going to be Independence Day and how everyone needed to bring weapons, etc. But that's the kind of rhetoric they always use. There is no real organising behind it (they call it fedposting and think they are so very clever when they add "in Minecraft" to calls of violence), just a lot of hope that someone else will do it for them and they get to sit back and watch. That's kind of the inherent weak point with stochastic terrorism that you can't really control it, but only try to drive some unstable people over the edge.
There was something similar with Michigan Capitol where a lot of people were really hoping something would happen, but there was really nobody to take the lead. And when some of these armed protestors later did try to organise to kidnap the governor and put her "on trial", the FBI cracked down on them.
ISIS style.
lowenz on 8/1/2021 at 22:54
Quote Posted by nbohr1more
This is a bad faith argument.
The Trump team claims their evidence is true and is asking for a "good faith" effort to examine it.
You do not even need the accused to be present.
Get computer scientists, IT workers, NSA personnel, and mathematicians into the room with the evidence and validate it the truth\falsehood of it digitally.
And this kind of overskeptism can be manipulated to a malignant form by Bannon-like figures (and social-media managers/strategists with a little psychological and sociological background).
That's their work.
They are paid to make people think as you do thinking they're "free" when in reality they're manipulated with the freedom power fantasy.
Nicker on 8/1/2021 at 23:00
It took 1.5 hours for anyone at the federal level to approve reinforcements. The Secretary of Defense was not answering his phone.
Quote:
It's really hard to estimate because there were no aerial views.
Strange that the police didn't have camera drones monitoring the perimeter. They knew about the rally and its intent. They would have seen the coverage in real time on TV: Rudy demanding trial by combat and T***p unleashing the mob. BLM could never have snuck up on them like that.
I am pretty sure it's planned negligence by their command and control.
Quote:
The woman who got trampled, brought a so-called Gadsden flag to the event.
True or not, am I a bad person for laughing at that? Should I even care at this point?
