june gloom on 7/11/2020 at 00:47
I'm friends with people on both sides of the aisle: anarcho-communists and democratic socialists!
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Fortunately for everyone involved, it doesn't.
Fortunately for the forum's alt-right dorks and everyone who's not on this forum, you mean.
demagogue on 7/11/2020 at 02:20
The article below is kind of a snarky, which I don't like much, but anyway it raises the obvious next question we have to face. What are the next few months until January 20 going to be like with Trump as a lame duck? His ranting and raving might still work people up now, but what is 6 weeks from now going to look like? If he can't concede, it'll be the saddest thing ever.
It seems like he's banking on the Supreme Court to intervene, but there's no actual legal claim to give them anything to hook on to. So I think it's going to come down to him realizing the court won't come for him in the end. In those Downfall parodies, I think the thing Jodl should say (over "Stiener refused the order to attack") that makes him shakily take off his glasses and go ballistic is the moment the court rejects his legal claim, and he realizes he's just stuck with a losing vote. Up until now, his leashing-out moment was when Fox news called Arizona for Biden, but I think the court rejection is really going to be the final straw, the thing he's so desperately counting on now, and the thing that's going to unleash his greatest fury and, following that, his saddest "I'm fucked" self-immolation.
A lot of articles keep using this term that he's going to "burn it all down", but what could that mean in this context when it gets to that final lash-out point? I don't want to underestimate how dark the places are that it corners his mind into.
Quote Posted by Vanity Fair
(
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/donald-trump-no-concession) It Sure Sounds Like Trump May Barricade Himself in the Oval Office and Refuse to Come Out If Biden Wins
The president has reportedly told allies he'll never concede.
By Bess Levin - November 7, 2020
By now you've likely heard that after pulling ahead in Georgia and, most crucially, Pennsylvania, Joe Biden will very likely be the next president of the United States. As you've probably also heard, Donald Trump is taking it as well as everyone had expected, ranting and raving about all kinds of made-up fraud, demanding counts be stopped in one state and continued in others, and filing numerous lawsuits that stand little chance of holding up in court because they have no merit (and, in some cases, have led judges to believe the lawyers attached to them have recently suffered traumatic brain injuries). At this point, a quasi reasonable person might say to himself, Okay, I'm going to cut my losses, salvage my last atom of dignity, and admit defeat. But obviously Donald Trump is not reasonable and he has no dignity. So instead he's decided he'll keep fighting this thing well beyond the point that it's hugely embarrassing to do so, and even after that fails, refuse to acknowledge that he lost and that Joe Biden is going to be president.
Yes, like George Costanza deciding to just go back to the office on Monday as if he didn't quit the Friday before, Trump apparently thinks he can just go on being president even if the American people have fired him. According to CNN, Trump reportedly has not prepared a concession speech and “in conversations with allies in recent days has said he has no intention of conceding the election.” The decision to go full delusional has obviously been strengthened by staffers, such as Mark Meadows, who “have not attempted to come to terms with the president about the reality of what is happening” and have instead fed into his claims of fraud; Vice President Mike Pence, who's been soliciting money for a legal defense fund; and his adult children, who've been spouting absurd conspiracy theories on Twitter as they watch the ultimate opportunity for nepotism slip away. While Trump has apparently admitted to some people that he knows the electoral math has no chance of working out in his favor, he has “maintained that a prolonged court battle and corrosive rhetoric about election fraud would sow enough doubt to allow him to refuse to accept the results.”
And while the majority of the president's inner circle is more than happy to go along with this sad alternative reality, a few members have reportedly grown worried that, eventually, someone will have to sit Trump down and explain that little Donny's not going to be president anymore—and at this point, it seems unlikely anyone will be able to get through to him short of slapping him across the face and screaming, “YOU LOST! IT'S OVER!” Yes, this is an actual thing allies of the president of the United States are actually grappling with:
It is a possibility the president did not consider in a serious way during the election, despite polls showing him with only a narrow path to victory, believing that looking past Election Day was bad luck. The delicate matter of a loss—and a potential postpresidential life—was not discussed widely among his team and was not raised often with the president, who believed adamantly he would win.
Now people around Trump are working to identify who might be able to communicate to him the stark reality. There has been talk of potentially Jared Kushner or Ivanka Trump, though their willingness to lead a difficult intervention wasn't clear.
Obviously it's not going to be Kushner or Ivanka, and the only people who think it might be are the ones still laboring under the impression that Ivanka is a “moderating influence” on the president. (Also the first daughter joined her father's disinformation campaign this morning, tweeting: “Every legally cast vote should be counted. Every illegally cast vote should not. This should not be controversial.” So there's that.) Hilariously, one idea being floated to convince Trump to accept defeat is “framing potential conversations...around the idea of preserving his brand for life after being president—and explaining that dragging out an election he clearly lost would ruin his businesses and forestall whatever political future he's hoping for.” This obviously assumes that Trump's brand up until this point was something other than insane, delusional, and spiteful, or that his followers would suddenly be all, Ooo, this is a side of the guy we never expected. It's honestly a big turnoff. What happened to the Trump we know?
On Friday, Biden campaign spokesman Andrew Bates said that the former vice president's staff wasn't worried about Trump refusing to leave the White House—not because they don't believe he's certifiably insane and might definitely barricade himself in the Oval Office, but because security will simply escort him from the premises. “The U.S. government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House,” he said.
Pyrian on 7/11/2020 at 02:53
I loathe that Vanity Fair piece. Its source is a CNN article that asserts that Trump's advisors say Trump has no plan to concede any time soon. Sure. And from that, VF concludes that he's going to "barricade himself in the oval office", which is clickbait.
Starker on 7/11/2020 at 03:06
I hope he will spend as much time as possible on ranting and raving and trying to contest Biden's win somehow. The more time he spends on that, the less time he'll have to fire people en masse (which he has made easier recently), write insane executive orders, pardon unsavoury characters, etc...
demagogue on 7/11/2020 at 03:54
Quote Posted by Pyrian
I loathe that Vanity Fair piece. Its source is a CNN article that asserts that Trump's advisors say Trump has no plan to concede any time soon. Sure. And from
that, VF concludes that he's going to "barricade himself in the oval office", which is clickbait.
Yes, I didn't like it either for that and related reasons. I guess I posted it to pose the question more than taking it the way it framed it at face value. I mean it framed it in a kind of more extreme way which gives us the talking point around which to think about the problem. Or something.
Pyrian on 7/11/2020 at 04:37
The hell of it is, it's getting posted like everywhere. Clickbait works.
demagogue on 7/11/2020 at 04:55
Mea culpa. :angel:
Edit: Really interesting paradoxes happening. One of the big ones is of course Trump railing against his lack of mail-in votes after he raged for so long insisting people not mail-in vote. But it's popping up in little places. One of my Trumpkin contacts posted:
Quote:
We use aps to do secure banking and authenticate our identity...why can't there be a voting ap that has been authenticated? If you don't have a phone you go to the poll. What's wrong with that?
I want to reply the obvious: Because that would only favor Democrats, so good luck getting a Republican state gov't to go for it. But he's thinking it's part of the reason why Republicans lost support, when if anything it kept Trump from having even more votes bled off. I think. It just seems so many parts of this were by the GOP's own construction. Incumbents are supposed to come in with a natural advantage. Anyway, this is what I meant by saying when a party is mortaly detached from reality, eventually that should translate to an actual political handicap.
Starker on 7/11/2020 at 06:03
We have a "voting app" and conservatives here fought against it for much the same reasons.
mopgoblin on 7/11/2020 at 07:08
One important advantage of voting being in person as opposed to by mail or nerdphone is that it gives more confidence that votes aren't coerced by, say, abusive husbands.
Starker on 7/11/2020 at 07:11
Yeah, that's why you can vote multiple times here. Even if someone forces you to vote one way, you could change it before deadline or by voting in person.
Of course, with the latter, an abusive husband might demand proof in the form of a photo, etc.
Edit: to be clear, you still have one vote. Only the vote you cast last counts.