Renzatic on 12/2/2020 at 23:20
As long as it's not extra care provided specifically to them at the expense of native and naturalized citizens, then I'd say that's entirely on California. Per the article, it's only costing the state an extra $125 million, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of California's budget. I could understand why some people would be peeved about it, since it could serve as an incentive to hop the border for an easier retirement, giving them the same benefits as someone who's worked and lived in the state all their life, but...eh.
Overall, I see it less as a fiscal issue, more as an ideological one. Something that may warrant bitching about, but it isn't breaking the bank, or depriving anyone else of anything.
jkcerda on 12/2/2020 at 23:23
Quote Posted by Renzatic
As long as it's not extra care provided specifically to them at the expense of native and naturalized citizens, then I'd say that's entirely on California. Per the article, it's only costing the state an extra $125 million, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of California's budget. I could understand why some people would be peeved about it, since it could serve as an incentive to hop the border for an easier retirement, giving them the same benefits as someone who's worked and lived in the state all their life, but...eh.
Overall, I see it less as a fiscal issue, more as an ideological one. Something that may warrant bitching about, but it isn't breaking the bank, or depriving anyone else of anything.
we pay the highest taxes in the nation...............
why the fuck are illegals getting free shit while legal citizens are fined?
and it IS "extra care" since many legal citizens in CA don't have the damn insurance.
the level of stupid liberals in CA is too damn high
Inline Image:
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84488863_3023961330982398_7885881171765100544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=K205duQUsqsAX-t6ZX7&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=15551ca2e7c67aa4a2453b839e0a0d24&oe=5EC6EE99Renzatic on 12/2/2020 at 23:30
Quote Posted by jkcerda
we pay the highest taxes in the nation...............
why the fuck are illegals getting free shit while legal citizens are fined?
and it IS "extra care" since many legal citizens in CA don't have the damn insurance.
the level of stupid liberals in CA is too damn high
For them to get healthcare, they have to be registered as tax payers by the state, right? Which means they can't just show up, and say they want free healthcare, correct?
Given the low amount of money spent to cover these people, I'm assuming you can't just show up, and get free healthcare. There's probably some criteria that has to be met before you're allowed access.
SO OFF TO THE INTERNET I GO!
Gryzemuis on 12/2/2020 at 23:30
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It can vary wildly, but I'd say it costs about $1,200 a month for a family of 4 out of pocket. Usually your employer pays X amount per month, you contribute Y amount, and then you have co-pays and premiums on top of that, depending on the plan. I vaguely recall reading that in 2018, the cost of insuring your average family would cost around $30,000 altogether per year.
For comparison: in NL everybody is obliged to buy health-insurance from a private company. We've got 20-30 companies to chose from (my guess). If you don't do this, you can be fined (large fines, but I have never heard of any who had to pay one). Often the employer pays, or adds the money to your salary for you to pay. The insurance companies are obliged (by law) to offer a base-package for a certain price. (All insurance companies are within 10% of each other on price). You can get extra insurance if you want to (dentist, glasses, etc, for 20-50 euros max extra). I got a base insurance, it's good enough, I think. Of course we have problems with our health system (e.g. waiting-lists). But everyone gets coverage, everyone gets helped. I've never heard of disputes with insurance companies and their customers (again: they are obliged to cover almost everything, also pre-conditions).
I pay a little under 100 euros per month for one person. I think 10 years ago the price was 80 euros per month.
I just looked it up. A family of 4 (2 adults, 2 kids) pays 385 euros per month. That surprised me. Before we had this system (20 years now ?), we had a system where 1) everyone under average annual salary was insured in a semi-government-run single-payer system. And everyone above average salary had to get private insurance. I think in that system the "breadwinner" of a family could insure his/her significant other and kids for just a little extra money. In other words: families were heavily subsidized. In the current system, it seems families have to pay full price. Good, I like that. (In NL single people are relatively much heavier taxed than families or two-income households. Fuck Christians).
Renzatic on 12/2/2020 at 23:43
So basically the Netherlands are using a system not vastly dissimilar to the ACA, except it's managed better? Well, fuck us.
And JK: It does seem they're charging a penalty to uninsured citizens specifically to cover the costs for this program, so yeah, that's incredibly unfair. It's a knee jerk reaction to counter Trump's knee jerk reactions on immigration. They're literally taking from people in need to cover other people in need simply so they can say they're covering illegal immigrants, and it ultimately won't accomplish anything except make people angry.
So, you're right.
jkcerda on 13/2/2020 at 02:37
Quote Posted by Renzatic
So basically the Netherlands are using a system not vastly dissimilar to the ACA, except it's managed better? Well, fuck us.
And JK: It does seem they're charging a penalty to uninsured citizens specifically to cover the costs for this program, so yeah, that's incredibly unfair. It's a knee jerk reaction to counter Trump's knee jerk reactions on immigration. They're literally taking from people in need to cover other people in need simply so they can say they're covering illegal immigrants, and it ultimately won't accomplish anything except make people angry.
So, you're right.
I'm always right .
Renzatic on 13/2/2020 at 03:26
And here you are, already letting it go to your head. Way to ruin the fun, JK. Geez.
Starker on 13/2/2020 at 03:43
So California is giving health care to young people who can't afford it, and it includes illegal immigrants? Good. That's the type of investment that pays a lot of dividends in the future.
Renzatic on 13/2/2020 at 04:14
The problem is that it enforces a penalty for one group who doesn't have insurance, while allowing another access without any overhead. Providing healthcare to those who can't afford it is all well and good, but that does come across as a bit unfair.
This is America, damnit! Everyone deserves to suffer!
Starker on 13/2/2020 at 04:46
Yes, I know. There's a famous experiment where a researcher gives one monkey a grape for a task and the other monkey a cucumber, and the monkey who gets the cucumber flips out at the other monkey, outraged about the perceived injustice. It doesn't bother him at all that the researcher has a whole bowl of those grapes. In our monkey brains too the bigger problem is always someone of equal or lower status getting something you don't think they deserve and the fear of losing out on something always looms bigger than the prospect of gaining something.
But in this case it's not true, is it? Poor immigrants and poor citizens alike get the free health care. As for undocumented immigrants not having to pay the penalty, well, they also don't get the benefits that come with citizenship.
It's funny. You exploit their labour for great gain, they pay 3 billion in taxes, but the moment their children get free health care for a fraction of a fraction of the amount they pay in, it's an outrage.
