catbarf on 17/1/2020 at 15:20
Quote Posted by demagogue
Gun talk definitely riles them up, just like abortion and the private lives of gay people and refugee caravans (nevermind if they're imaginary) and freeloaders (i.e., Blacks and Mexican-Americans) getting food stamps (nevermind their situation is nothing like it's imagined to be). But all of that is politics by arbitrary fixation at best, open discrimination or conspiratorial fear-mongering at worst.
Somehow I don't think that adequately explains Antifa Seven Hills or the Socialist Rifle Association showing up to the rally. Beyond the reactionaries and the nebulous idea of a revolution against tyranny, there are an increasing number people who believe, for various reasons, that they either can't trust the police to ensure their safety or actively don't want police making decisions of life or death. The idea of a heavily-armed, unaccountable, strongly-right-leaning police class providing the safety for a disarmed population (or not, since there is no legal duty to protect) is not universally popular on the left.
We can speculate on how the 2nd Amendment clingers would view Japanese-Americans using force to resist internment, but the fact is that minority groups are taking an increasing interest in self-defense. Concealed carry permit issuance among black and Latino populations has been rising over the last ten years, and Pink Pistols alone have 45 chapters nationwide. I'm currently living in a majority-Korean town, and they've been armed to the teeth ever since the LA Riots. So whatever this issue is, it's not explicitly a left-vs-right thing. Which isn't anything new- California's gun control began as a response to the Black Panthers having an open-carry march- but it's less divided along party lines than it has been for the past two decades.
And given the imaginative ranting about 'Bubba Rambo' in this thread, I'd say it's not just the extreme gun advocates who get riled up by it, either.
Starker on 17/1/2020 at 15:51
As far as I can tell, nobody is talking about about anything even remotely close to disarming the populace. It's things like background checks, red flag laws, etc.
Pyrian on 17/1/2020 at 16:24
Quote Posted by catbarf
...the fact is that minority groups are taking an increasing interest in self-defense.
Well, that's how we got national gun control laws the first time around.
catbarf on 17/1/2020 at 16:48
Quote Posted by Starker
As far as I can tell, nobody is talking about about anything even remotely close to disarming the populace. It's things like background checks, red flag laws, etc.
Yeah, plus mandatory registries, which have historically been used to carry out subsequent confiscation efforts in New York and Hawaii. And outright confiscation (as in the previously-submitted Virginia bills, or Beto O'Rourke making it a platform promise, or California's assault weapons ban). And restrictions on use of firearms for self-defense or concealed carry. We've seen this process play out in other states before, and seen Democrats wistfully remark on how the UK and Australia should be our model; it's not hard to infer that the end goal is somewhere beyond 'background checks and red flag laws and then we'll call it a day'.
Call it what you want; we know the UK and Australia still have guns but they're certainly not available as a practical means of self-defense for marginalized communities.
Also, some of these intermediate measures disproportionately affect those communities as it stands. Universal background check laws, for example, don't allow private citizens to conduct background checks, they simply ban private sale and require a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder to facilitate the sale. The problem is that in order to have an FFL, you need to run a business, which makes you subject to zoning laws. Many urban municipalities use zoning to keep FFL holders out. In the entire District of Columbia, for example, there is only a single FFL holder, and he is required by the District to operate out of the DC police headquarters. If you're a DC resident and want a handgun, you have to schedule with him, go to the police headquarters downtown, and pay his abnormally high transfer fee. If he doesn't want to do business with you for whatever reason (which, as with many of the Good Old Boys working at gun shops, could be the color of your skin), you're out of luck. If he dies, that'll be it for legal transfers until something (probably legal action) forces the District to allow another FFL.
Red flag laws (
http://riaclu.org/news/post/aclu-of-rhode-island-raises-red-flags-over-red-flag-gun-legislation) tend to be problematic from a civil liberties standpoint, but if worded properly they're fine. Handgun purchase limits are fine too. There's also currently a bill in the VA House regarding safe storage and I hope that one goes through. This protest and backlash is not centered on the specific, immediate bills that are up for vote, it's about long-term policy.
jkcerda on 17/1/2020 at 17:01
Quote Posted by catbarf
Somehow I don't think that adequately explains Antifa Seven Hills or the Socialist Rifle Association showing up to the rally. Beyond the reactionaries and the nebulous idea of a revolution against tyranny, there are an increasing number people who believe, for various reasons, that they either can't trust the police to ensure their safety or actively don't want police making decisions of life or death. The idea of a heavily-armed, unaccountable, strongly-right-leaning police class providing the safety for a disarmed population (or not, since there is no legal duty to protect) is not universally popular on the left.
We can speculate on how the 2nd Amendment clingers would view Japanese-Americans using force to resist internment, but the fact is that minority groups are taking an increasing interest in self-defense. Concealed carry permit issuance among black and Latino populations has been rising over the last ten years, and Pink Pistols alone have 45 chapters nationwide. I'm currently living in a majority-Korean town, and they've been armed to the teeth ever since the LA Riots. So whatever this issue is, it's not explicitly a left-vs-right thing. Which isn't anything new- California's gun control began as a response to the Black Panthers having an open-carry march- but it's less divided along party lines than it has been for the past two decades.
And given the imaginative ranting about 'Bubba Rambo' in this thread, I'd say it's not just the extreme gun advocates who get riled up by it, either.
liberals " trump is literally hitler, white nationalism if rising, cops are killing minorities"
also liberals " only the GOVT should have guns".
Starker on 17/1/2020 at 17:01
That's what frustrates me the most when talking about gun control -- there's some kind of a hypothetical dystopian scenario that could happen, therefore even the mildest and widely supported measures must be struck down. It's always black and white, with some not infrequent insinuations that murder is going to be on the menu otherwise.
Tony_Tarantula on 17/1/2020 at 17:11
Boomers live in alternate universe. It is like they think it is still 1985. We are on the verge of a financial meltdown and the only way we are keeping things afloat financially is through emergency QE procedures. We are stuck in an endless war for 18 years, Vietnam was only 12/13 years. And a hot civil war is on the verge of kicking off in Virginia.
And this is what Trump wastes his time on in his rallies and his dwindling supporters cheer for?
(
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1217416389150924802?s=20)
jkcerda on 17/1/2020 at 17:43
Quote Posted by Starker
That's what frustrates me the most when talking about gun control -- there's some kind of a hypothetical dystopian scenario that could happen, therefore even the mildest and widely supported measures must be struck down. It's always black and white, with some not infrequent insinuations that murder is going to be on the menu otherwise.
CA went full retard, Bill Clinton went full retard, sorry but the democrats being extreme retards is why we say not one more fucking inch.
Renzatic on 17/1/2020 at 19:16
Quote Posted by jkcerda
CA went full retard, Bill Clinton went full retard, sorry but the democrats being extreme retards is why we say not one more fucking inch.
The Assault Rifle Ban of '94 actually had surprisingly strong Republican support behind it. Reagan became a big advocate for gun control after being shot by Hinckley back in the 80's, and was one of the architects behind California's more draconian gun control laws after all. He did quite a bit to spearhead the issue for both parties.
While the Democrats have been historically a little more proactive about gun control laws, it really only became a partisan issue under Bush.
jkcerda on 17/1/2020 at 19:30
said it before, I would NOT bother me if Reagans corpse was put on display for people to piss on it.
