uncadonego on 24/11/2019 at 02:37
That's why I like Shields and Brooks on PBS Newshour on Fridays. At least one long time liberal and one long time conservative can have a civil normal conversation about these things, and even agree on some points.
Nicker on 24/11/2019 at 02:54
(
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/rudy-giuliani-lev-parnas-devin-nunes-joe-biden_n_5dd8a90ee4b0913e6f6cba16?ri18n=true) Please be real. Please be real. Please be real...
Quote:
Rudy Giuliani's indicted associate Lev Parnas is prepared to tell Congress that Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) met with a former Ukrainian prosecutor who was ousted over corruption concerns in a bid to get dirt on Joe Biden, CNN reported Friday.
Quote:
Bondy also told CNN that Parnas worked to connect Nunes, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, with other Ukrainians who allegedly could come up with negative information on former Vice President Biden and the Democrats. If true, Nunes would be the first member of Congress linked to gathering opposition research on President Donald Trump's political rival from a former foreign official, CNN noted — and one with a score to settle with Biden, who had pushed for Shokin's ouster.
Nunes has apparently denied the meeting and is suing CNN over the story.
Pyrian on 24/11/2019 at 06:36
Quote Posted by Renzatic
There's no middle ground anymore.
They called 'em "RINO"s and drove 'em out.
heywood on 24/11/2019 at 16:22
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I'm not apologizing. I just wish that, for once, we could have a reciprocal conversation with actual conservatives. These days, it seems anyone who isn't a bleeding heart liberal is some wannabe badass putting up a front, and/or Grade A certified fucko crazy. There's no middle ground anymore.
They're in the closet.
Why would a traditional ideological conservative want to spend time in a thread dedicated to chronicling and ridiculing everything Trump? They either hate him, or are at least terribly embarrassed by him. They may have grudgingly accepting him taking over the party, because he's delivered for them on some policies and judicial nominations. But why risk their reputation and squander intellectual capital trying to defend a President who is indefensible to any rational person at this point.
Nicker on 24/11/2019 at 17:31
Why spend time in this thread? They could sound off here and show that being a conservative and/or a Republican does not mean you are in lock step with trumpsterism.
But whether inside or outside this thread, there seem to be very few people on the right willing to tell the increasingly objective truth about Trump, that he was and is a criminal and he has done great damage to the USA, domestically and internationally, as well as to the conservative brand in general.
Remaining silent is squandering their intellectual and moral capital, not speaking out against corruption. It amounts to tacit endorsement of everything Trump, especially the criminal shit.
heywood on 25/11/2019 at 15:44
I don't agree that staying out of Trump threads = tacit endorsement of Trump.
It seems you're trying to play the forced allegiance game i.e. "you're either with us, or against us," whereby the accused has to ally with your side otherwise you presume they support the other side. I know you and Starker hardly let a day go by without broadcasting your opposition to Trump, but that's your hobby. I'm very strongly anti-Trump and anti-Republican at this point, but I don't see much point in talking about it in this thread. There really isn't much to say that isn't already out there, and there's nobody here that I'm going to convince.
This thread has spawned a few side conversations about US government policies in which there were good, if brief, apolitical exchanges of views. I enjoyed those exchanges, but they always ended prematurely, either by descending into a page-long battle of texts, or cut short when somebody reports the newest scandal of the day and everyone jumps to repond. I've gotten the impression that extended discussion is not welcome/not the point of this thread. It's disappointing because TTLG members are a thoughtful crowd. If this were any other site, I'd ignore this thread completely. But I keep poking my head in here from time to time because I occasionally find some thoughtful posts among the din and keep hoping it might go somewhere beyond talking points. It rarely does.
Now imagine you are a traditional establishment Republican and you honestly can't stand Trump and his administration, but he's still making policy that you mostly agree with. You don't want to/can't defend the Trump administration on corruption, foreign policy, or whatever. But maybe you like the judicial nominations, tax cuts, regulatory roll-backs, etc. How are you going to come into a thread like this and defend the policies you favor without being tarred & feathered as a Trump supporter? You can't. Which is why the vast majority of my Republican friends and family members have gone silent on politics since the 2016 election.
We have a smart crowd here and I'd love to meet you all in a TTLG convention where we talk games for a while, along with music, hobbies, food, TV, culture, design, philosophy, families, relationships, and politics too. But I wouldn't want to show up at a TTLG convention where you had to declare your political allegiance at the door.
Dave
jkcerda on 25/11/2019 at 18:10
aw come'on, if you are NOT left you HAVE to be right..........
Nicker on 25/11/2019 at 19:10
heywood - And I disagree with your disagreement. Silence from moderate conservative/right-leaning folks, is tacit approval, of Trump. Conservatives can come here and either effectively defend Trump and his actions (which you must admit is an increasingly difficult thing to do) or they could come here and denounce Trump's actions as anathema to their values. No loss of capital there. But you can't claim to be the victim.
That's not 'wid us or agin us'. That's simply the choice facing conservatives, do they hold their noses or do they speak out?
I regularly update the tally of Trumpian offences here because he is a clear and present danger to the world. People are dying, countries are suffering, for no other reason than Trump is stupid, impulsive and spiteful. No he's not to blame for everything but there is a lot of ugly shit going on today that would not be happening if there was not a low-life fuck-wit in the White House. It's really that simple.
Sure there are opportunities for constructive side discussions but A - this thread is about Trump, and B - the people actively frustrating any real bipartisan work are Trump's lackeys in the Senate. So who's fault is that? Who put them there and who lets them ride roughshod over the law?
If you want to start a side discussion, start another thread. That would be a good thing and if I participate I promise not to bash Trump there.
nickie on 25/11/2019 at 20:45
I'm not sure I agree about the 'tacit approval', Nicker. I don't know, I can't quite pin down why I'm not sure. I could just be wishy-washy.
Perhaps I've been labouring under a misapprehension but I always (relatively recently anyway) thought that TTLG welcomed different opinions when couched in reasoned language. I've heard plenty of Republicans, even Trump supporters sometimes, on mainstream cable news (is that what I mean?) making good arguments for their position but they do it in a way, i.e. not shouting and talking over everyone, that makes me stop and think and question my own thinking. Unfortunately, it seems to me that the few who come here with a different position just make angry throwaway remarks which don't progress the conversation in any way.
But I wholeheartedly agree that Trump is a clear and present danger. Trump seems to be crapping all over Europe (and other allies). I am reminded that the only time Nato invoked Article 5 was in defence of the US on September 12 2001, the day after the attacks in the US. Would Article 5 receive unanimous approval if invoked on behalf of the US again? After Trump's verbal attacks on Europe? Not sure.
Starker on 26/11/2019 at 02:31
I'm no big fan of Lord Dampnut, that much is true (and obvious), but I don't come here to broadcast my opposition to him, whatever that means. I'm mostly just here for entertainment and to share articles I've found interesting or newsworthy. Cause let's face it, when are you ever going to get a president that behaves that way as the leader of a major country? If you have any interest in Ancient Rome at all, this is one of the rare opportunities to see something similar in your lifetime. Or to put it in another way, how often is it you get to witness the unfolding of a real life Seldon Crisis?
