Starker on 12/11/2019 at 17:01
Drain the swamp:
Quote:
(
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/12/federal-health-funneled-dollars-trump-allies-069638)
At least eight former White House, presidential transition and campaign officials for President Donald Trump were hired as outside contractors to the federal health department at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, according to documents newly obtained by POLITICO.
They were among at least 40 consultants who worked on a one-year, $2.25 million contract directed by Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Seema Verma. The contractors were hired to burnish Verma's personal brand and provide “strategic communications” support. They charged up to $380 per hour for work traditionally handled by dozens of career civil servants in CMS's communications department.
The arrangement allowed the Trump allies to cycle through the federal government's opaque contracting system, charging hefty fees with little public oversight or accountability.
[...]
Renzatic on 12/11/2019 at 17:04
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
The prosecutor testified under oath that he was removed to protect Burisma.
Yeah, he did, but his take on matters is incredibly suspect, and has a lot to gain by lying. (
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-16/ukraine-prosecutor-says-no-evidence-of-wrongdoing-by-bidens) Other sources are saying there never was an issue with the Bidens, and that the investigation into Burisma stemmed from a possible money laundering scheme that occurred before he even sat on the board.
Quote:
I've already outlined the (easily reproduced from public sources) timeline and the idea of everything being kosher and aboveboard requires believing in numerous "coincidences" all just being perfectly timed to line up events that made the Biden family rich with foreign policy decisions from Joe Biden.
There's only one coincidence here. Admittedly, it's a big one, but the evidence tends to mitigate it. (
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/10/imf-warns-ukraine-halt-40bn-bailout-corruption-christine-lagarde) It's not like the Biden's were the only party threatening to withhold funding to Ukraine unless it dealt with its internal corruption issues. Viktor Shokin's ouster at the behest of the US Government wasn't committed in a vacuum. There were plenty of pressure being applied by multiple interests. Like I said, everyone knew exactly what Biden did, and why he did it. Hence why it wasn't that huge of a deal at the time, even when the media was bringing up the potential conflict of interests to public attention.
Quote:
So is a quid pro quo engagement where they get the aid and in exchange the Biden family gets a kickback.
If you can prove that Burisma courted Hunter Biden specifically to get his father to act on their behalf, prove that Joe Biden used the influence and position as Vice President to stymie a troublesome investigation into his son's company specifically for his benefit, then yeah, it'd be a quid pro quo on the same level as what Trump is being accused of now.
Right now, with all things considered, you can't prove that intent. That Hunter Biden possibly profited indirectly from government action spurred on by his father's involvement in a wider issue isn't proof of a quid pro quo in and of itself.
(
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/031516_Herbst_Testimony.pdf) For added proof, here's testimony from former Ambassador John E. Herbst concerning internal corruption in Ukraine, written months before Biden forced Shokin's ouster.
Quote:
While reform progress was substantial in 2015, it was not enough for many in civil society and at least some reformers in the Rada and the government. Critics focused on the absence of any real changes in the Procurator General's Office and in the judiciary and claimed that the president and prime minister were not interested in going after these major sources of corruption. Both institutions were known to facilitate corruption. They pointed to the failure of the government—through the Procurator General—to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption. They complained,too,that Procurator General Viktor Shokin was a compromised figure who had served as Procurator General in the Yanukovych administration.
By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin's removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General's Office. U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.
jkcerda on 12/11/2019 at 17:44
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
The prosecutor testified under oath that he was removed to protect Burisma.
.
source please.
Tony_Tarantula on 13/11/2019 at 01:16
Interesting video...on a tangent but the material is worth considering because it’s easy to conjecture as to why Trump voters don’t really have any interest in democracy.
I’ll let the present present but it’s an interesting take on what makes societies functional.
I’m curious if the declining intelligence of the country is to blame in large part for what’s happening.
[video=youtube_share;3Rs_7E8pReU]https://youtu.be/3Rs_7E8pReU[/video]
TLDR: Intelligence is a fairly strong predictive factor for economic productivity; and as experiments demonstrate it’s because a higher level of intelligence makes cooperation possible as the participants in any cooperative endeavor are capable of rationally analyzing future consequences and benefits from on going co operation instead of simply focusing on short term gain.
Nicker on 13/11/2019 at 04:07
I hope Trump is s strong swimmer, (
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/roger-stone-trial-to-resume-with-focus-on-trump-campaign-and-wikileaks/2019/11/12/e2e0fb0c-0309-11ea-9518-1e76abc088b6_story.html#comments-wrapper) what with that Stone around his neck...
Quote:
Rick Gates, who served as Trump's deputy campaign chairman, testified Tuesday that Stone began discussing Clinton leaks with the campaign in April 2016 and that from May onward Gates understood Stone to be the campaign's intermediary with WikiLeaks. By July 2016, Gates testified, Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort said he was updating Trump and others regularly and directed Gates to keep following up with Stone. After Trump ended one phone call from Stone at the end of that month, Gates testified, the future president said to Gates that “more information would be coming.”
What? Trump lied in his written responses to Mueller? Say it ain't so, Joe! Say it ain't so!
Renzatic on 13/11/2019 at 04:30
So we've got allegations of corruption, bribery, and now lying under oath?
Shame none of it's illegal, huh? They can't convict without a blowjob to hang it all on.
jkcerda on 13/11/2019 at 23:52
everything appears to be "hear/say" from everyone , missing from today is trump actually saying what they all seem to believe...........
Starker on 14/11/2019 at 01:46
No real gray area about withholding military aid and pressuring a foreign government to investigate your political opponent and publicly announce it.
"I'd like you to do us a favour, though."
And despite all the bluster about how he would welcome the impeachment and it would be good for him, the first instinct of this chickenshit president was to try to bribe the Democrats with gun legislation to make it go away.
jkcerda on 14/11/2019 at 15:34
I think the surprise of the day was Quigley: "hearsay can be much better evidence than direct."
Say what?!