Old and Cunning on 6/11/2019 at 21:18
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If we're gonna spend that much money, it'd be better to do so on shit that's cheaper, admittedly less impressive, but has a better of chance of working. Like drones, motion detectors, and more active border patrol agents to oversee it.
I live just north of the border and would like to inject some direct knowledge. I've been here for 35 years and have watched all the drama unfold from Operation Gatekeeper to the present. Border crime in communities like ours is rampant, and ranges from drug and people smuggling to vandalism, home invasion, brutal dog killings, auto theft and continual nighttime disturbance. If you object to having your property used by smugglers, they will target you.
We got a stretch of the original (Bush-era) bollard fence installed to the south of our property in 2007-08. It made a phenomenal difference to public safety in my neighborhood, but the 1.5 mile stretch channels traffic around (not over), so until we get more of it, my neighbors at either end of it are getting slammed. What's more, starting in late 2018, when the Trump economy started to kick in, traffic ticked up, and now even my area is getting busy again, as those hordes of people go around the ends of the fence and travel up the creekbed over to my neighborhood to be picked up by their rides.
We have LONG had all of the gadgetry you mention. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. Our terrain challenges line-of-sight gadgets, and some of that stuff ended up being removed for use on flatter ground. Drones are successful for surveillance, as they operate from a great altitude. Night vision scopes are posted on various high points. We have LONG had agents bouncing around the neighborhood -- post OG, border staffing in our region grew from a 3-shift maximum of about 20, to over 400. You can only cram so many agents into a string of communities with only one road going through them. The smugglers watch everything from high points in Mexico, and make good use of shift change time and time when residents are absent. We have no privacy anymore.
Our neighborhoods used to be safe and quiet before OG, but is now is a place of continual disturbance. My car window was bashed out one night last week. I had to install a pump saver on my well because "international travelers" are apparently incapable of turning off hoses after they sneak up for a drink. When people's dogs started turning up knifed from throat to loins and left to die, we took all our dogs' collars off to make them harder to grab. Even so, our dogs have shown up of a morning with knife cuts on several occasions. None have died, I'm happy to report.
It's not OK for any community in this country to be like this, and it's particularly frustrating when people who live nowhere near it act like our attempts to get some help are just a bunch of racist Trumpeters wasting other people's money for no particular purpose. People of EVERY color are suffering harm in our communities and we are all tired of being kicked around like a political football.
We have no more room for agents on our roads, and have maxed out the limits of available technology. The missing ingredient, at this point, IS the fence, and I really wish more people understood how urgent our need is in rural border towns.
Nicker on 6/11/2019 at 21:19
Quote Posted by nickie
Nicker, the Mail is not a reputable paper so I'd prefer to know in advance if that's the source so I can choose not to click on the link.
You could also search "kushner greenlit khashoggi arrest".
I found nothing on snopes about these claims so I submitted a request with them. Perhaps it is just stuff and nonsense but given the range and depth of abuse by this administration, it is not beyond possibility.
Pyrian on 6/11/2019 at 22:13
Quote Posted by Old and Cunning
It's not OK for any community in this country to be like this, and it's particularly frustrating when people who live nowhere near it act like our attempts to get some help are just a bunch of racist Trumpeters wasting other people's money for no particular purpose.
Well, when you say one thing, and the data says something else, it is only natural to wonder what motivates you.
(
https://www.areavibes.com/campo-ca/crime/)
EDIT:
I'm often bemused at some of the "defenses" that get brought up:
Quote:
“What I can tell you about the Trump policy toward the Ukraine — it was incoherent. It depends on who you talked to. They seemed to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo.” - Lindsey Graham
Well that makes it all better.
Renzatic on 6/11/2019 at 23:03
Quote Posted by Pyrian
I'm often bemused at some of the "defenses" that get brought up:Well that makes it all better.
Trump can't be guilty! He's too incompetent to do something this complex!
Nicker on 7/11/2019 at 04:17
Plus, Trump eventually gave Ukraine the money Congress earmarked for them, even though Selensky didn't cave. No payoff no crime, right?
Tocky on 7/11/2019 at 04:36
Quote Posted by Old and Cunning
We have no more room for agents on our roads, and have maxed out the limits of available technology. The missing ingredient, at this point, IS the fence, and I really wish more people understood how urgent our need is in rural border towns.
And you expect that a fence will stop that? You expect that those who have no problem breaking a law will say "oh they have a fence now so we may as well turn around and go home". They go around now. When there is no around to go they will go back rather than over right? Sure. Sure they will.
lowenz on 7/11/2019 at 08:16
Quote Posted by Tocky
And you expect that a fence will stop that? You expect that those who have no problem breaking a law will say "oh they have a fence now so we may as well turn around and go home". They go around now. When there is no around to go they will go back rather than over right? Sure. Sure they will.
Or, more simply, they'll bribe some agents.
demagogue on 7/11/2019 at 09:11
I understood that the problem with Trump's conception of the border wall wasn't that it's completely nonsensical and that there was no need at all in many areas, but that what he was asking for was wildly out of proportion to the need, on both the costs and benefits side. That's actually an empirical question, and the credible response should come from some expert wonk statistician that's worked in immigration control for a lot of years and knows both the numbers and these kinds of border towns and areas. It seems intuitively extravagant to target the whole border, but lots of good policies have been unintuitive before, so (like any issue) I try to have my opinion rest on the DHLS White Papers or whatever out there on this.
In the grand scheme of things, the Wall is tiny peanuts to worry about from this admin compared to the rampaging elephants out there, for one thing because the political will isn't there for it even if it were a great policy. So it's kind of an academic issue to begin with.
Starker on 7/11/2019 at 09:57
No, the wall, as proposed by Lord Dampnut, is completely nonsensical, even if it didn't cost billions upon billions of dollars (and that's only the government estimate). It wouldn't come even close to achieving what it's proposed to do, it would actually make border security worse, it would harm ecological systems on both sides, and it would be a pain to maintain.
Having some relatively cheap and easy to maintain fencing (or some different kind of barrier) to augment already existing security measures where it makes sense, that's a very different proposal.
nickie on 7/11/2019 at 10:09
Quote Posted by Nicker
You could also search "kushner greenlit khashoggi arrest".
I found nothing on snopes about these claims so I submitted a request with them. Perhaps it is just stuff and nonsense but given the range and depth of abuse by this administration, it is not beyond possibility.
I did look at the article once I got there. I'll be interested to see if snopes comes up with anything.
