And the WINNER is........ [beware of spoilers]

ferret on 6/8/2002 at 13:31

IIRC TNT crates don't create a powerful enough explosion to destroy the tri-hull weld points. You might want to try finding explosive barrels (not the ones with the red design, because they aren't powerful enough). Then you can either pick these up using the strength aug, or drop TNT on them.

But then again, I might be wrong...

#1 taffer on 10/8/2002 at 21:45

Quote:

Originally posted by tungsten
yea well, i once tried the fire-extinguisher on myself (was burning like a candle) - didn't work.

ar. when someone uses flame throw to burn you like Gunther, you use the fire-extinguisher to put out of the fire on you. Of course you nailed him first before you use the fire-extinguisher.

Raekkeri on 28/8/2002 at 09:40

Yeah, I finally managed to destroy those tri-hull weld points in the ship (it was easy, because there already was two TNT-crates in that ship, so I only had to bring three more of them from the ammo-storage. And one TNT-crate is powerful enough to destroy one tri-hull weld.)

But, after I sank the ship, and went to see that guy (what was his name again...) in graveyard, I faced an impossible challenge: you have to destroy that damn emp-machine (Jock can't land if you don't do that), and there is no explosive barrels around, only LAMs. Mission failed. I have to change "the rules", so I can use explosives, when problem like that is faced. :tsktsk:

..if no one has a hint?

Master Villain on 28/8/2002 at 11:30

Um, just say it's not a weapon if you're not using it to kill someone? I think that's fair.

Skilless on 25/10/2002 at 20:36

TNT crates can be transferred between transitions as long as you don't have to speak to someone first (Jock in helicopter, Gunther during your capture at Battery Park, etc.). Speaking to someone makes you toss anything in your hands.

If you can find an adjacent map that has a TNT crate, you can bring it over (and up/down ladders too).

BTW, I would define a weapon as a device used to cause harm to others. Using the baton/prod/crowbar/etc to break open crates is using a tool, no different than a hammer. While a hammer "could" be used as a weapon, it is usually referred to as a tool. In the same vein if you used TNT to move rock while building a tunnel, for example, I'd call that a tool. A LAM is no different than a TNT crate realistically. Grenades in real life are designed to kill humans, but LAMs are merely high explosive devices that have many purposes. Ditto for the GEP; its how you use the device, not what it is. One more analogy and then I'll stop........rockets, can be used to deliver satellites into space for communications, or used as a delivery system for a destructive device.

Webster's:
Tool = An implement or machine used to do work or perform a task
Weapon = An instrument or device used for either offense or defense

The trait isn't inherent in the device but in how you use it! If you only use the pistol to break lamps, bottles, doors, etc. then it isn't a weapon, its a tool. Semantics.

santaClaws on 27/10/2002 at 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Skilless
Weapon = An instrument or device used for either offense or defense

But in that line of thought, even some augmentations would qualify as weapons.

Skilless on 28/10/2002 at 20:10

Dear Santa (sorry, couldn't resist),

Well, I suppose that's true, but it would be more accurate to say that the nanonites are the weapon, since the augmentations are just that, augmentations to the existing nano-technology. JC is a weapon in and of himself.

Also, how you define "defense" would have to be taken into consideration. If you consider "defense" to be the preventation of damage, that is different than "avoidance" or "counter-offensive". I wouldn't say that avoidance is the same as defense in this case, or that the prevention of damage (ballistic armor for example) would be considered a defensive weapon either, but rather the "counter-offensive" definition.

Whatever the case, I think that if you avoided doing damage to any "living thing", that you could say you didn't use any weapons. Weapons have a purpose, it is to destroy or damage. Since avoiding damaging "objects" is impossible to complete the game, damaging "living things" would have to be the criteria....

Raekkeri on 29/10/2002 at 19:08

Well, I finally finished the game without using any(?) weapons. That problem at Stanton Dowd's place (when I thought it was impossible to destroy the EMP generator which prevent Jock to land) was solved: the generator is very weak, and I think you could brake it by jumping on it long enough. Anyway, when the MJ12 troops "took over" the graveyard, I ran to the gate keepers house and started to jump on the generator. When the gate keeper noticed me, he started to shoot, and hit the generator.

The end of the game (ocean lab, missile silo and Page's bunkers) was nothing else but running. In Paris and Vandenberg there was still some glory in how I was doing things, but.. *sigh*.

Hmm, I don't know about those "defining weapons" things, but I guess you're right, Skilless. ...But... hmm, I actually did use "a tool" (TNT crate) to kill a trooper, so isn't TNT crate a weapon then (in that single case..actually I have a (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/raekkeri/muut/saelae/dxpic.JPG) screenshot)?

But I don't know, if the starting point is: "won't use a weapon (which is made to harm people) on any purpose", is using TNT crate forbidden if you use it to kill? I think it is... (damnit).

#1 taffer on 30/10/2002 at 06:51

I have a question about the peeps who doesn't use any weapons to play the game.

How do you finish the missle silo base without killing or knock out Howard Strong "without" any weapons? I know Jack won't lend his helicopter unless you make sure no one interfere the launch to Area 51.

Skilless on 30/10/2002 at 13:57

Quote:

...I actually did use "a tool" (TNT crate) to kill a trooper....

This means you used a "weapon". If your use of the TNT crate were to open a door, or remove an obstacle, then it would be considered a tool, but since you used it to kill someone, it was a weapon, no different than if you had thrown a LAM nearby.

Now, if you mean that you completed the game without picking up any of the "weapons" in the game, that would be something different in my book.