Sceadugenga1987 on 26/7/2013 at 04:04
I thought the third-person option was unnecessary in Deadly Shadows, but I just told myself not to use it. Similarly, I tried to use my imagination a bit about what I would spend my leftover money on once the main plot finished.
If I hadn't been 17 and too busy, I would have thought a bit deeper about the plot (because the best thing about Metal Age was the blurry line between good and evil) and maybe delved into fan-fiction. But it's never too late.
Suppose the Baron persecutes the fledgling church which is trying to undermine and expose the Keepers. The masses can choose which side to support, and you can decide if it's a fight worth fighting. So, money leads to more money, but following sub-plots could unlock more sub-plots. The question is what to do with the money, perhaps unlock a map editor and script writer?
And if modding does become more popular, people might want to base it on real life contexts. So this thread would aim to brainstorm.
The Keepers, for instance, are analogous with The Catholic Church if we may assume that they were chosen to restrict The Truth from the multitude that can’t appreciate the gift of freewill...
Azaran on 26/7/2013 at 04:54
Quote Posted by Sceadugenga1987
The Keepers, for instance, are analogous with The Catholic Church if we may assume that they were chosen to restrict The Truth from the multitude that can’t appreciate the gift of freewill...
The Hammers are more like the Catholic church, I think most people will agree. I see the Keepers a bit like the Freemasons, but more secretive and influential.
Sceadugenga1987 on 26/7/2013 at 06:08
Yes, that works also, since Catholicism is so broad, and the Mechanists were a deluded off-shoot of The Hammers. One of the early missions in Metal Age was robbing some warehouses near the sea front which began with an eavesdrop on an argument between Hammer and Mechanist. That kind of oppression is something that could be expanded upon.
I don't know what The Freemasons represent, or how submissive or subservient they might be to the Catholic Church, but I can imagine the negotiations and/or compromises between the elders of the various factions that could go on behind closed doors in the game, which is what I'd like to hear (and/or create) more of.
Sceadugenga1987 on 26/7/2013 at 06:49
Quote Posted by Azaran
The Hammers are more like the Catholic church, I think most people will agree. I see the Keepers a bit like the Freemasons, but more secretive and influential.
But I will point out that The Keepers were not
very secretive when I escaped from their compound! I could draw an analogy between The Hammers and The Mechanists, and between the good Keepers and the Hag.So perhaps deluded off-shoots of established institutions is already a tired idea, but I wonder how they might co-operate if faced with a Robin Hood type of character...
Azaran on 26/7/2013 at 07:24
The Freemasons were actually opposed to the Catholic church, and to this day it continues (if you're catholic and you become a mason, you're automatically excommunicated). As for the Mechanists I saw them more as Protestant ultra-fundamentalists, a more extreme breakaway\offshoot from earlier Catholicism, but at the same time more focused on using modern technology to achieve its ends (think megachurches, religious tv channels in the US, churches supporting big corporate companies etc.). But yeah, in a situation where they share a common enemy, they might cooperate. It could be something for a fan mission.
Sceadugenga1987 on 26/7/2013 at 08:27
Within the idea of breakaway, ultra-fundamentalist Protestantism, what if Karras himself had discovered a dusty old codex in a Hammer library that detailed how the Builder had allegedly become a man to walk among them, but wasn't accepted by the Hammer elders, so they crucified him and tried to hide the evidence... Now Karras was overcome by greed and so he hid and tried to use 'The Truth' to his own ends (think revenue for TV preaching rights, as you said)
Looking forward, I did see a pastor-type character in the E3 trailer, which is what gave me this idea. That pastor may have also discovered the legend of the Builder's crucifixion and atonement for their sins, but in contrast to Karras, he is duly spreading the word humbly among the people. Now we (i.e. Garrett) can choose either to have nothing to do with them, or can somehow sabotage the attempts of The Hammers or whoever are trying to stop this virtual reformation...
I may add that I'm currently reading 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen G White, but am not entirely convinced by it, yet, I'm not sure if I can't be.
Petike the Taffer on 16/8/2013 at 13:31
I always viewed the Keepers as part monastic order and part generic secret society.
The Hammerites have obvious Catholic trappings, while the Mechanists have some elements of Protestantism in general. The Hammerites have (unseen) order knights in addition to the clergy and monastic staff, the Mechanists have more gender equality and the obvious theological disputes with the Hammerites' view of The Builder's teachings.
The Pagans are rather generic fantasy worshippers of old deities and nature. There's not much direct inspiration for them in any particular real historical ethnicity or religion.
SeriousCallersOnly on 17/8/2013 at 06:07
jk7 had a awesome post about his imagined history of the setting based on the Thief 1 movies. (especially detailing the historic/mythic pagan-trickster/hammerite-builder struggle) It made sense!
I forget where it is, but maybe someone remembers.
Then there are things like the eye, which btw seems a absolutely insane thing to create, even if you're evil mcevil, having a sentient artifact that can raise the dead doesn't seem very smart.
Sceadugenga1987 on 30/1/2018 at 08:09
Hi Petike the Taffer, sadly neglected this community - perhaps was feeling somehow guilty about enjoying thievery! Anyhow I read your other post in the thread 'Almost 20 years of discussions..': "I might start a new thread about some aspect of the universe/lore in the near future."
:) or perhaps revisit old ones? I need a new project to counter balance the growing excitement of volatility in Forex market.
Still dabbling with writing ideas. I'll keep a heads up for any threads on ancient lore from the Thief universe. Or perhaps you could point me in the direction of some that exist already? References to the Hammers or the identity of 'The Builder' would be great. I haven't played Thief IV but I hear that the only sparse reference to old lore is through the Hammers...
