PigLick on 11/12/2008 at 11:37
well, I am sure there are renowned musicians out there who were once told they were not that great, so who knows what can happen? More gigging under your belt, toughen up the band, make the sound more refined.
Kolya on 11/12/2008 at 15:47
These lyrics drown an actually (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Garibaldi) moving story in far too big words (
The fate of Uruguay, The future of my race, etc). One could write a great song about Anita's scarf.
Stitch on 11/12/2008 at 16:14
Quote Posted by Fingernail
You see, tuning is somewhat subjective, but I obviously don't hear whatever you do. I think the problem there is that you've had a couple of poor examples already from which to make up your mind.
I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Does this guy just happen to sing really well on the takes you didn't use?
And tuning isn't really subjective, although whether or not something works is, and your singer currently isn't working more often than not. It isn't really tied to technical skill (although a little would go a long way with this guy). Few of my favorite vocalists have classically trained-sounding voices, but the Issac Brocks and Spencer Krugs of the world have hacked their way through the weeds and figured out what works for them, and your singer has yet to do this.
Quote Posted by Fingernail
None of the criticism particularly shakes any of my foundations, though. I know you're being harsh because this is TTLG and you'd be as harsh about a lot of what is commercially produced and released. I'm not going to apologise for being what might be percieved as defensive, though - this isn't a case like Sypha Nadon's novel, because we all know that there is something of some actual merit here, and if it seems like a cop-out, it isn't.
Actually, your replies in this thread have reminded me a lot of Sypha, although you admittedly come with better credentials and references. It's not that you're defensive so much as utterly dismissive, sticking your fingers in your ears and writing off criticism as merely a difference of stylistic preference. You don't need to listen to everybody, but you do need to find some trusted ears outside of your insulated comfort zone.
Due to your lofty ambitions and music school credentials you've adopted a certain assumption of value that frankly isn't yet earned. You're just another amateurish local band at this point, as clueless about song arrangement and writing as the next guy opening up at the nearest dive bar.
Thing is, all great bands have been there. You're
supposed to be overly confident at this point, even if it gets in the way (and oh god does it ever). Ultimately the instincts you need to follow are your own, and you'll eventually sort things out--or quit somewhere along the way.
I'll grant you this, though: you guys do have
something, even if it only really shines through on the last track. Unsurprisingly, the song where you guys drop the forced pretentious ambitions and just rock the fuck out (in your own fey indie way) is your most successful, and it's promising that you guys recognize this. The main thing you need right now is not internet advice but constant gigging, as PigLick said. Less time agonizing over arrangements in the bedroom, more time developing chemistry and growing armor onstage.
So keep at it, and despite the harsh treatment I hope you'll continue to share your music with us.
Fingernail on 11/12/2008 at 16:19
Quote Posted by Kolya
These lyrics drown an actually (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Garibaldi) moving story in far too big words (
The fate of Uruguay, The future of my race, etc). One could write a great song about Anita's scarf.
Well, that's a good perspective, but again, it's not really the intention. It's not a song of the
story of Anita, its attempt is to capture the character and excitement of Garibaldi as he tries to persuade her (through overblown romantic propositions, appeals to adventure and a sense of idealism) to join him. This is a man who literally saw her through a telescope, took a boat ashore, burst into her room and said "thou oughtest to be mine!" He was not the most refined character in many respects.
New Horizon on 11/12/2008 at 16:28
Man, some pretty blunt feedback here. I'm going to open a thread with some links to a few tunes from my band. I love brutal feedback....but I'll also take pleasant feedback as well. lol Don't feel obliged to only say bad things. haha
(
http://ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124348)
Finger, I'm going to give your songs a couple more listens and post my thoughts.
Stitch on 11/12/2008 at 16:33
Quote Posted by Fingernail
Well, that's a good perspective, but again, it's not really the intention.
Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about defending lyrics, as that's one area of music in which everyone and their girlfriend will feel entitled to strong opinion. Your lyrics are fine.
Snake on 12/12/2008 at 01:05
It needs more cowbell.
Fingernail on 12/12/2008 at 12:57
I think you're warming to it, Stitch, you big loser.
Anyway, these things are incredibly temporal - you do it, then move on. It may interest some of you to learn that we started recording these in July. Some of it reflects what we were back then, some is much more recent. None of it was performed as a band - we don't have the resources to do that. I think the achievement that I'm proud of is that it's a recognisable step forward from what we did last year, in pretty much every area. And I partly think all of your criticism is recognition* of the - perhaps misplaced - ambition of what we're going for. This isn't MOR. But producing something that we're totally happy with is always just around the next corner, and that's what keeps us going.
It's the same with my classical playing in many ways - although generally more well recieved, I'm essentially as dismissive of positive feedback as negative - I know that I'm "getting better". I'm not "done" yet - I probably never will be, as one's own standards and expectations rise, and shift in focus, as shaped by experience.
*I don't mean to suggest that the fact it's been criticised is evidence that it's good - all I mean is that the level on which you're willing to engage with the music suggests a recognition of its intention. As if, to at least some degree, it is the sort of thing that does, or could, matter.
PS. Our drum kit cost us £100 - do you know how much work it was to make it sound half-way decent? I genuinely thought I was actually going to literally die during the mixing process! :eek: (apologies to Mr Nadon)
