BEAR on 11/12/2008 at 03:00
Orphan City: I don't think it was quite as bad as some are saying (or, at least to my ears). The singer doesn't make me want to claw my ears off a much as earlier listens, and the guitar in between vocals works well. It has a very king crimson sound to it, guitar and vocals alike. Something clearly doesn't work with the vocals but I'm not musically knowledgeable enough to be able to tell you what that is.
The Hop Exchange: As said, this song just works. Nothing jumps out as not working and its a fun song.
Anita: Not that bad, but it focuses too much on the vocals which is still your bands weak point in my eyes.
Do You Ever Feel Like Dancing: Not bad, but then again I like melancholy things like that. The worst part was the chorus, but it wasn't that bad.
Overall, not nearly as bad as the comments posted here lead me to think. Shows marked improvement from the last tracks I hear (most of which had the effect of fingernails (lol) on chalkboard, mostly due to the singer).
Stitch on 11/12/2008 at 04:26
Quote Posted by Fingernail
Thanks for the feedback, though. I guess all I can really say is that this isn't your cup of tea. Whether it's anyone's other than our own remains to be seen!
fuckin cop out mang
Listen to piglick, he knows what he's talking about. For the record, this
is my cup of tea and I only think the last song works. Your vocalist really should practice more; I get the style he's going for but his shit pitch is pouring ice water on boners everywhere.
Also: weak lyrics that reference historical figures are still weak lyrics.
fett on 11/12/2008 at 05:30
Quote Posted by PigLick
Lyrics should speak for themselves and not need any extra context.
I kinda disagree with that. Some of my favorite lyrics and one thing that typically attracts me to a band are enigmatic lyrics. Especially in this case where they reference something I can learn more about if I dig around a bit. But yeah, there's gotta be something to latch on to somewhere to even be able to do that.
Not my cup of tea, but good luck and have fun. :thumb:
Muzman on 11/12/2008 at 06:43
It's the hook absence he's talking about mostly, I suspect. Something to do with performance and the tune and things, as is implied. My favourite example is someone like Tori Amos, whose lyrics are quite often cryptic beyond belief but they sure as hell sound like they're about something (something apocalyptically emotional, usually).
Lessee; comments; It's that sort of inoffensive 'young original band' stuff you find at the original music night down the pub really. This is the English band coming on in between the Pavement and the The White Stripes (I was gonna say the XTC, but that's a little too specific, plus I'm not sure it's a proper pick). You guys get half an hour and no sound check (fuck it up and we'll mute you). The songs are songs. They don't hurt but they aren't especially memorable. Smattering of well meaning applause from people scattered about, largely in conversation. Three lines of 'worth keeping an eye on if...' in the night review and the rest of the column to the headliners.
This might be the meanest review yet, by some standards, but it's not meant to be. I think it sounds pretty good it just doesn't quite hit any notable highs.
My fave is actually the dirgy one everyone hates. I like that one. If the singer (yes) was a bit more of a technician... Work on it and it could really come together (It's on the EP already. Oh right, sorry). The piano is weak though; nice part but I hope it wasn't a real one.
Orphan city is kinda 'we play the notes the other guys won't' and comes off a little sophomoric.
The last one is good but there's a couple of bits where it grinds the gears on the change (technical music term, you understand) and loses me. Also, needs more Horrors. Worth it for the cat/siren backing though.
The Anita one has a lot I really don't like, to be perfectly frank. The sound is all spread out (such is the collection, but it's more obvious here), leaving the singer sticking out so we can hear him paint those notes like Jackson Pollock without the commitment. Plus it says 'Anita' way too much, and probably would even if it weren't my sister's name and she never uses it in its proper form.
Anyway, takes more nerve than I've got to do this (skill too, but hey) so good luck with the next one.
Medlar on 11/12/2008 at 10:09
I can add little more to what's been said here but imho the lead vocal style does not work. Very tight otherwise.
PigLick on 11/12/2008 at 10:24
excellent thread, reminds me of the old days a bit, posting music and shit, discussing etc
henke on 11/12/2008 at 10:27
Quote Posted by Brethren
I think when he said "respond in any way you feel appropriate" he didn't really mean "crush our soul by telling us how much this sucks."
Yeah I did kinda get that feeling from the joking
"humoungous desire to have our egos puffed up from across the internet" comment, which is why I added the "crushingly honest" disclaimer. Really, I tried to review the tracks by the same standards I'd hold a new song by Kanye West, or The White Stripes, or any other artist/band to.
The Debt Offensive sound like they're still trying to find their style and I hope they decide to go in the direction of more songs like "The Hop Exchange".
Uh... ok. I did gather from the lyrics that it were about a people(the Iroquai?) on the brink of extinction and that this Anita woman was some kind of symbol of perseverance. Or something. The Flaming Lips once sang this same song except then the girl's name was Yoshimi and she had to save her people from an invasion of Pink Robots. Somehow Wayne Coyne managed to make his plea for salvation sound a lot more urgent and heartfelt than your singer does. Historical acuracy doesn't matter as much as the singers ability to move. In retrospect maybe it's not so much the lyrics I have a trouble with as much as it is your singer.
Fingernail on 11/12/2008 at 11:10
Quote Posted by Stitch
shit pitch
You see, tuning is somewhat subjective, but I obviously don't hear whatever you do. I think the problem there is that you've had a couple of poor examples already from which to make up your mind.
The lyrics of Anita - obviously the mistake here is that what I was going for doesn't come across. The hope was that the rhythm, the chords and the Latin vibe would be enough to carry one even if you didn't "get" the lyrics - which are occasionally obscure, and it must be said, totally tongue-in-cheek. I hope no one thought that "anita/I need ya/I need ya more than ever/give me your hand I need you/darling anita" was meant to be much more than a pithy sort of mock-rock chorus. I sort of hoped that upon realising that I was actually capable of lyrics and lines with more intrinsic significance (you may disagree), it would be realised that such lines were a choice, not an accident. At the very least, it's a conscious departure from the norm.
The sound is something that you can only lay at my door, since I have done all the mixing, editing, mastering. I did it largely to my own taste, I might say, sometimes shamelessly aping that of my favourite music. If it's a full, thick sound you like, it probably sounds better in mono than stereo, for a start.
None of the criticism particularly shakes any of my foundations, though. I know you're being harsh because this is TTLG and you'd be as harsh about a lot of what is commercially produced and released. I'm not going to apologise for being what might be percieved as defensive, though - this isn't a case like Sypha Nadon's novel, because we all know that there is something of some actual merit here, and if it seems like a cop-out, it isn't. We all knew that the Hop Exchange turned out the best by far - it's not surprising, and moderately gratifying to see that recognised. Recording is a trying process, especially under non-ideal circumstances, and sometimes things you think will work don't, and sometimes you can't go back and change stuff. And at some point, you just have to say, ok, that's it. It's done.
Really, all I'm trying to do is explain where we are coming from in the hope that
something might communicate a little better. And yes, I think you should forgive me for not immediately bowing to anyone's "superior" knowledge - all of this is so inherently subjective, and everyone has ridiculously meaningless credentials. Two members of this band study and perform classical music. We're also in a band. Another was in a choir, and a musical. The other has been in several other bands and in his youth, orchestras and wind bands. That's a pretty wide compass of musical experience and training - which is apparently worth nothing in the face of someone else. Actually, for these purposes, neither is worth anything, so I'm not going to respect the opinion of anyone here more than anyone else. It's
all valuable criticism.
But by far the most important thing is that you did listen, consider and respond, so thanks!
PigLick on 11/12/2008 at 11:21
I was aware of the bands musical skills, you told me once a while back. And also, I think there is no question that the band can play, I honestly think the singer is dragging you down.
Fingernail on 11/12/2008 at 11:30
Quote Posted by henke
Uh... ok. I did gather from the lyrics that it were about a people(the Iroquai?) on the brink of extinction and that this Anita woman was some kind of symbol of perseverance. Or something.
Something. At least, it's
meant to be about Giuseppe Garibaldi, famed Italian independence fighter, during his time in South America, wooing his future wife, Anita. They spent some years engaged in civil wars in Uruguay, before going to Italy in an attempt to unify the country. She eventually died on a forced march during the retreat from the failed Roman Republic. Of course, this is meant to be unnecessary "extra knowledge", but y'know, sometimes it doesn't work. You live and learn.
The fate of Uruguay,
depends upon your eyes.
"Come away with me now,
though oughtest to be mine!"
[chorus]
The future of my race [the Italian race]
depends upon your grace.
Come away with me now,
we ought to make us free now [from Austrian oppression]
[chorus]
Warrior by my side,
mother, oh child! [she had several kids by Garibaldi]
If I ever lose you, I would die.
We'll sail together,
'cross seas and jungles, always fight together,
swords cannot divide us,
cannon balls turn to ash and dust.
@Piglick, one man's dragging down is another's commitment and worthwhile input, and willingness to tackle tough stuff. But the important thing is that we can have a discussion about this, that's what I want and love.
