An elf walks into a bar...

Paz on 5/8/2009 at 13:05

TOP THREE COMEDY LAWYERS

#3: Nick Virago

#2: Barry Zuckerkorn

#1: Orly Taitz

i guess what i'm saying is congrats and never be in this list

Matthew on 5/8/2009 at 13:36

Sheesh, people forget my man Jack so quickly.

Starrfall on 5/8/2009 at 14:02

I think we're all sure Orly Taitz is actually an alien from space who is just trying to hard to cover her own tracks with this birther thing.

Vegas is still a (currently unplanned) possibility! If we end up making plans we'll try to drag as many other people there as is possible on short notice.

rachel on 5/8/2009 at 14:10

Dammit if you do it now I won't go, I'm completely broke. How did the year go so fast? :(

SubJeff on 5/8/2009 at 16:53

Interesting post RBJ, especially the bit about always being at someone's beck and call and the psychic toll. I can relate to that somewhat since my "clients" are sometimes less than grateful despite everything.

Part of the (macro) issue here is the massive cost of degrees in the US though, isn't it? I guess in the UK, with much lower costs even now (despite the abolition of grants which I was lucky to get, twice) the debt to salary ratio isn't such a big deal despite the size of salaries here (which I understand don't tend to go as high as they do in the US).

Also, Vegas sounds awesome.

Rug Burn Junky on 5/8/2009 at 17:33

Well, the massive cost of the degrees is a complicated matter. The salary inflation at the top of the market fueled a comparable increase in tuition. If you end up in Biglaw, the debt load limits your options to bail out, but it really doesn't affect your standard of living (I paid $2g/mo to my loans for a while, and barely blinked an eye at it).

The problem is that the top of the market has no bearing on most students, but that didn't stop a lot of second rate schools from pumping up their tuition as well. The return on investment at most of these schools is negative. At the top (T14 schools), it's a fair price for what you get. On the bubble (Most of the rest of the top tier), it's a risk that leaves you little margin for error, but is at least passable (When the market shakes out in a year or two, the top tier students should be fine, but there are going to be a class or two of students who get royally screwed.) The students who pay retail for schools lower than that are, quite frankly, suckers. Students that are careful - go to state schools, or rely on scholarships - are going to be ok.

That's not to say that the only way you'll ever make money as a lawyer is to go to an expensive school. I know a number of attorneys who built their own practices from scratch and do quite well for themselves, but they did that on their own, not through the credentials of their schools, and were able to do so because they weren't tied down by 6 figures in loans and were quickly able to reach ramen-profitability and support themselves until their businesses took off.

But a law degree is sold as a golden ticket by a lot of schools, and it isn't. Either you have the pedigree to get the big-time job, which most schools can't give you, or you rely on your own sweat equity. Because of this, there's a tremendous and growing backlash against the American Bar Association and the second tier schools that profited most from this misconception (Loyola, Brooklyn Law).
--------------------
Back to the micro view for a moment, I'm not really worried about "landing on my feet" so don't be too sad. ;-) but it's (http://abovethelaw.com/2009/08/lawyer_with_stockholm_syndrome.php) douchebags like this that really sum up the kind of fucked up thinking that it requires to become partner at a firm now-a-days and why I knew going in that that was never my goal.

And, since my back-up plan to land on my feet is to become a combination stand-up comic/professional poker player, I am THERE for the Vegas meet (And I am aiming for Orly Taitz for that top spot.)

SubJeff on 5/8/2009 at 22:38

mmmmm yeeaaah. I don't know about the poker thing. I met a professional player a few weeks ago (I was thinking of buying his apartment) and he didn't seem like the most financially stable guy. Sure he had a fairly nice $425,000 apartment but thing is he was having to sell it to gamble some more.

And you'd never make it as stand up. Sorry dude, but I reckon you'd channel Hicks too much and (unlike me, until the not too distant past) the audience would pick up on it straight away. Nah. Kill yourself instead.
Seriously

Scots Taffer on 5/8/2009 at 22:53

Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky

And, since my back-up plan to land on my feet is to become a combination stand-up comic/professional poker player, I am THERE for the Vegas meet.

And I'm booking us the honeymoon suite at the Rio.

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

I met a professional player a few weeks ago (I was thinking of buying his apartment) and he didn't seem like the most financially stable guy. Sure he had a fairly nice $425,000 apartment but thing is he was having to sell it to gamble some more.

such swongs :(

Starrfall on 5/8/2009 at 23:05

To expound further on this evil, here is my school (which is a middling top tier example, so not even the worst sort by a long shot): (http://www.law.ucdavis.edu/prospective/career-services/statistics.html)

53% in private practice and those in private practice make $85,000-$160,000? AWESOME

Except I know the people in that class and there's no way 53% are working in private practice the way you'd think. For example see how 34% of those in private practice are in big big firms? Those guys are mostly contract attorneys. This means not full time, which means they don't count in the "Salary Ranges" category. So while working in a firm as an associate will get you 85K-160K, really only 30% of the class at the most will make that kind of money.

Luckily I'm well within that percentage. GOLDEN HANDCUFFS HERE I COME

(also probably half of those judicial clerkships are in alaska)

edit: we are currently looking at mid-september dates for vegas and will update when we confirm. The good news is that Vegas is cheap as hell these days (we're looking at three night packages that include flights (from CA, which is close) that go as low as $500. The economic downturn can be your friend!)

SubJeff on 5/8/2009 at 23:47

Quote Posted by Starrfall

$85,000-$160,000? AWESOME

So at todays rates that's about £50,000 to £93,000.

Hmmmm. This has got me wondering how much lawyers in the UK get paid. Can anyone shed any light? And does anyone know how much doctors in the US get paid? I'm wondering about this all because, well because if the thread in general but because of the info itt about the amount of dept people in the US end up in. I know what it is like the UK (I came out with £20k/$34k from a 4 year stint which is small compared to lots of people I know) and RBJ's figure of $160k for law students is just :eek: to me unless they get on the higher end of the payscale v.quick.