Pyrian on 9/3/2014 at 23:23
If you're willing to not support early browser versions, event manipulation and most dom manipulations aren't even difficult in base JavaScript. It's not like a decade ago, where if you weren't using JQuery or something like it, you were basically obligated to
build some equivalent functions.
Quote:
When I dug into it recently I was amazed at how many web/mobile frameworks are available.
It's frankly kind of annoying. And then when you get to the point of troubleshooting, you might find that you basically need to know JavaScript, CSS, HTML, SQL, and whatever language they're using for server-side page-rendering, anyway.
Bakerman on 10/3/2014 at 09:14
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
and you can even use it on the server now with Node.
Which is a shame - I'd much rather people focused on finding a good way to write client code in anything
other than JavaScript, instead of going the other way and letting JS invade the server :P.
scumble on 10/3/2014 at 11:20
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Yeah there's loads. But you don't need to use Angular or Ember unless you, err, need the stuff they have.
jQuery allows for easy event handling and dom manipulation.
If you are rolling some simple interactive pages I can see where jQuery would be sensible. I see the main point of a framework as eliminating a load of the stuff you have to do routinely, and saving you from having to write your own framework. I think that's the reason there are so many about, because many developers have had to create a framework for a specific project.
Quote Posted by Pyrian
...you might find that you basically need to know JavaScript, CSS, HTML, SQL, and whatever language they're using for server-side page-rendering, anyway.
I agree you still need to know your basics, otherwise you don't know whether the framework you are trying is really necessary. One can also learn things from frameworks by giving them a try.
Bakerman - I can see the usefulness of node in creating simple server applications that scale. The fact that it uses JS is just an accident - browsers ended up using JS so it turned into the standard web development language, and because a load of developers knew JS node allowed them to do other stuff without them having to learn Java, Scala or Ruby.
You could say they should just learn something better, but productivity tends to trump technical beauty where budgets are involved.
Another thing about frameworks is they can help by setting you up with good practices like automated testing, but if you are a beginner you really need someone to show you which frameworks encourage good practices...
SubJeff on 12/3/2014 at 09:45
Why wouldn't you want Js on the server Bakerman? If I'm using PHP on the server, Javascript on the client and an SQL DB isn't that just extra work re: paradigm shifting as I code? I suppose it depends on what you are coding.
Pyrian on 12/3/2014 at 16:49
I think he meant that he'd prefer to write everything in a different language that compiles to/generates JavaScript.
That's how my last framework functioned; a base language which compiled to JavaScript, HTML, C++, and SQL. (You could also insert your own JavaScript, SQL, HTML, and CSS where necessary, and in the case of SQL and CSS it was quite frequently necessary). Still had to debug the resulting JavaScript in Chrome a few times, though, and the whole thing was sometimes confusing to trainees who weren't already conversant with lower-level web-programming. Nonetheless it was a lot faster to get database-centric web-applications done.
