SubJeff on 7/6/2009 at 10:05
This is a dumb argument because you cannot "prove" that foetus is not a human being since your definition of a human being can be so wide ranging.
As to the stats - maternal death rates are a good proxy for it since those women die because of the pregnancy. If they weren't pregnant they wouldn't have died. Of course they could have all been hit by a bus but...
Regardless of death there are lots of other morbidities associated with pregnancy. Do they not count as adverse aspects of it because they women don't die?
kidmystik101 on 7/6/2009 at 13:05
Quote Posted by kidmystik101
No.
Fetus =/= Human being. Not one with feelings, emotions or memory.
How many times people? A fetus is not a fucking adult. It's not even a child.
Children (humans) learn, remember things, experience emotion. A fetus sits there and...exists. Untill such a time as it leaves the womb it's a parisite, really.
.
SubJeff on 7/6/2009 at 13:32
Dude, it may not be an adult or a child but you could argue that its a human life. Whether or not it experiences anything, and at what stage it development it starts to experience, is open to interpretation.
kidmystik101 on 7/6/2009 at 13:35
But what do you classify life as? Their heart pushing blood around their body?
The problem with this argument is that it's all opinions (and I'm forcing my opinion on others, lol). For example, to me a baby isn't a baby 'till it's out of the womb. Untill such a time it's a fetus.
Anyway, I'm bowing out of this argument. Final thoughs - Her body, her choice, no matter what the circumstances may be.
Starrfall on 7/6/2009 at 13:43
Here's a US life table (
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4c6.html)
Using Renz's numbers, pregnancy appears increase the chance of death by almost 50% for a 15 year old, about 30% for a 20 year old, 25% for a 25 year old, 20% for a 30 year old, and about 15% for a 35 year old.
Of course, if Renz's numbers are an average then we're probably not getting the whole picture here. Pregnancy is riskier for a 15 year old than it is for a 25 year old, for example. Personal medical history/risk factors can make a huge difference. Hell, even body shape makes a difference. And it's almost certainly riskier if you're in a more rural area with scarcer medical services, or if you're too poor to afford anything but the most basic care (and may god help you if you are poor and have no insurance. Oh wait god won't help, better go to planned parenthood where they'll provide prenatal care for free or at a rate you can afford, as long as you don't get shot by some retard when you're trying to enter.) And as Subeff says, that's only the death rate and it doesn't address other complications.
After you tell us what level of increased risk is acceptable, be sure to let us know why you, and not the woman, get to make that decision.
Chimpy Chompy on 7/6/2009 at 15:54
Quote Posted by Renzatic
And the moral? Hell if I know. I think it has more to do with wanting to be right than anything.
Yeah, god forbid anyone actually stop yelling I'M RIGHT NO SHUT UP I'M RIGHT and sit and think about their position.
[edit]ok that's probably unfair but it does seem like most people are so utterly entrenched.
I don't know, I think with abortion the earlier the better so the system should probably facilitate that. But late term... I'm really not happy with saying it's just a matter of a woman's decision over her own body :(
Which I guess is the status quo right now anyway.
Namdrol on 7/6/2009 at 16:11
This whole thing started because some total fucking dickwad decides that life is so precious that he'd kill for it.
How the fuck does that work?
And all these fucking nutters support the death penalty.
Are they insane? (Rhetorical question)
june gloom on 7/6/2009 at 16:14
Quote Posted by Namdrol
And all these fucking nutters support the death penalty.
How do you know?
Nicker on 7/6/2009 at 16:18
Quote Posted by Namdrol
And all these fucking nutters support the death penalty. (Rhetorical question)
Quote Posted by dethtoll
How do you know?
Because that's what they are dishing out?
june gloom on 7/6/2009 at 16:55
All of them?
