Namdrol on 5/6/2009 at 12:13
Quote Posted by Nicker
Unwanted pregnancies should be terminated as early as possible and “morning after” pills should be freely available to all women of reproductive age, should they so desire, even without the knowledge and consent of parents.
In mainland UK the morning after pill is available over the counter without a prescription.
I'm pro choice and I think my reasons have already been eloquently stated by others.
But I think there are very, very few woman who have an abortion and are not effected long term.
And no, you sanctimonious fuck wits, that doesn't mean you can use this as a pro life argument.
It's a decision that comes with it's own consequences and just pray to that evil fantasy in the sky to whom you transfer all your responsibility, that you'll never be put in that position
snowcap21 on 5/6/2009 at 12:14
Quote Posted by Phatose
No, I'm not. I'm suggesting that if a fetus is inside a woman and it's not rape, it's the woman's fault that fetus is in there. Couldn't be the fetuses - it didn't exist. Basic biology tells me the woman did something to get that fetus in there, and the fact that it's not rape tells me she was a willing participant. And you want me to just accept that even though we're saying the baby is a person, it should be perfectly acceptable to kill that person for being in a situation cause by the person who wants to do the killing?
Out of curiosity: Is it in your opinion irrelevant, if the woman used (usually reliable) means of birth control or not? Because you talk about "inviting" the embryo, but there's obvioulsy a huge difference between the decision to have sex and the decision to maybe make a baby, even if both result in the same activity.
And I think it's a horse, Kolya.
Queue on 5/6/2009 at 12:58
Quote Posted by Kolya
bah, take a life for just one meal? kill a cow, 20 people can be served!
Kolya's on to something here. Dead babies
could end world hunger if we all put our differences aside.
Think about it people!
...you know in your hearts, I'm right.
Phatose on 5/6/2009 at 13:38
Quote Posted by Thirith
This, on the other hand... I find it extremely telling that you're saying "it's the woman's fault that the fetus is in there". It makes me wonder whether you know about the basic facts of life... and it makes it difficult even to engage with discussion on this as long as you're on your misogynist high horse, to be frank.
What basic facts of life would those be? That a man is also involved? If he were claiming it was his body, then it would be the exact same for him. Since he never gets around to making that claim, there's no reason to deal with him.
Do not mistake "It's the woman's fault that the fetus is in there" for "it's ONLY the woman's fault that the fetus is in there" - they are different statements. The former is quite sufficient for my purposes.
Quote Posted by Morte
And I'm saying you should stop pretending your objections aren't about the behavior of women when you constantly spin around and make whether it's ok or not entirely contingent on whether she was raped or not. Get it?
Quote:
Morte, it is about the woman's behavior. But being about the woman's behavior isn't equivalent to sex bad, nor is disallowing a woman from killing a sentient being to protect the sanctity of her uterus when problem exists through an action she took punishing someone for having sex.
Quote:
Out of curiosity: Is it in your opinion irrelevant, if the woman used (usually reliable) means of birth control or not? Because you talk about "inviting" the embryo, but there's obvioulsy a huge difference between the decision to have sex and the decision to maybe make a baby, even if both result in the same activity.
Yes. While I absolutely understand that people want to have sex even when they don't make a baby, the reality is that sex can result in a baby whether you want one or not. Risks are involved, and we are all well aware of this.
snowcap21 on 5/6/2009 at 14:07
Quote Posted by Phatose
Yes. While I absolutely understand that people want to have sex even when they don't make a baby, the reality is that sex can result in a baby whether you want one or not. Risks are involved, and we are all well aware of this.
But you'd say, that you have to be aware of a certain risk, or do you think every action that results in a pregnancy obliges the woman? (Or would oblige her, if the foetus was a person, to be more precise). Since we talk about "what if"s here anyway - there's this myth about women getting pregnant by swimming in a pool. If, for the sake of the argument, something like this happened, a real accident - what would you say? Theoretically you can think about several situations in which getting pregnant becomes less and less likely, for instance sterilisation. What is unlikely enough?
Phatose on 5/6/2009 at 15:28
No wormrat, I'm saying "If a fetus is equivalent to an adult, and if you had sex knowing that you can pop a baby into existence, then your right to control your body does not outweight the right of the fetus' right to exist, especially since you're responsible for it's existence."
You're arguing against a statement of the form (NOT(if A&B then C)) by arguing not A - and whether or not A is true is completely irrelevant to the statement actually being made.
Quote:
But you'd say, that you have to be aware of a certain risk, or do you think every action that results in a pregnancy obliges the woman? (Or would oblige her, if the foetus was a person, to be more precise). Since we talk about "what if"s here anyway - there's this myth about women getting pregnant by swimming in a pool. If, for the sake of the argument, something like this happened, a real accident - what would you say? Theoretically you can think about several situations in which getting pregnant becomes less and less likely, for instance sterilisation. What is unlikely enough?
Difficult question. I'd probably put the line at 'reasonable person would expect this is impossible'.
belboz on 5/6/2009 at 15:46
plugs in popcorn making machine.
Singing Dancing Moose on 5/6/2009 at 16:24
Quote Posted by Phatose
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so you've had a lot of bad relationships huh
