Gingerbread Man on 4/6/2009 at 23:36
First sensible thing I've heard all day.
Phatose on 4/6/2009 at 23:40
No DDL - someone made that claim - that exactly claim, see above - and I said it was fucking retarded and people have been giving me shit for 3 pages and called me fucking hitler because I did that.
Now as for your question, no, it's not OK. By my way of reckoning, brainwave patterns distinctively human start appearing in a fetus about the middle of the second trimester. When you get right down to it, our brains, our thinking, is the only reason why killing a human is murder and killing an ape is at most a violation of protected species laws. So, right about then I say "OK, well, it's doing the only thing that separates us from apes, so it's one of us now." - at which point the rules become the same as they would for a baby. Taking that life is only acceptable if there are huge mitigating factors - like say, a real threat to the life of the mother.
The question is one of personhood. When does a baby become recognizably a person.
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Phatose and Displacer have pretty much said that irrc though.
Where?
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And Phatose, what you are suggesting is removal of the rights of the mother and transference of those rights to the foetus.
No, I'm not. I'm suggesting that if a fetus is inside a woman and it's not rape, it's the woman's fault that fetus is in there. Couldn't be the fetuses - it didn't exist. Basic biology tells me the woman did something to get that fetus in there, and the fact that it's not rape tells me she was a willing participant. And you want me to just accept that even though we're saying the baby is a person, it should be perfectly acceptable to kill that person for being in a situation cause by the person who wants to do the killing?
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All you anti-abortion people - if your wife was likely to die unless she had an abortion what would you do?
Find an anti-abortion person and ask them. I'm anti-bad reasoning.
Harvester on 4/6/2009 at 23:44
Quote Posted by Queue
I love this whole nonsense that good churchies are supposed to go forth and propagate like weeds, yet sex is a naughty taboo which good-folks don't talk about and thoughts of which will cause them to burn in hell. BUT, make sure you have lots of sex so you can make more good, happy,
coffer stuffers congregation members--just don't enjoy it, or else baby Jesus will catch the gout. No wonder these kids are fucked up and will stick anything in 'em when they can.
That's great, but the attitude you're describing is a very 19th century attitude. Most modern christians talk about sex much more freely and they believe that sex was given by God to produce offspring, but also simply to be
enjoyed and to strengthen the marital bond.
AR Master on 5/6/2009 at 04:09
Don't get me wrong: I love the idea of killing unwanted babies; it's just that the notion of letting women make a decision doesn't sit well with me
Shug on 5/6/2009 at 04:21
HE'S BACK IN FORM, THANK GOD
Starrfall on 5/6/2009 at 04:28
Quote Posted by AR Master
it's just that the notion of letting women make a decision doesn't sit well with me
I'd be worried about the decision making ability of any woman who willingly slept with you too so I guess I understand that
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OR
just think of every fetus as a potential convert to militant islam who will want to kill you in your sleep
PigLick on 5/6/2009 at 04:38
yeh I let a woman make a decision once, now look where I ended up
AR Master on 5/6/2009 at 04:46
Quote Posted by Starrfall
I'd be worried about the decision making ability of any woman who willingly slept with you
yes i agree but
here is where you went wrong
Morte on 5/6/2009 at 06:08
Quote Posted by Phatose
Whether or not I believe the fucking fetus is a real fucking human hasn't even come into goddamn question here, because it's totally fucking irrelevant.
The claim was made on like page 3 that the woman's right to her body allows her to terminate a pregnancy in all cases, even if we allow that the fetus is equivalent to a human being, no questions asked - I'm saying that's bullshit. Get it yet?
So, here's a litmus test for you. The baby is due in a week. The mother willingly and intentionally concieved the child. But oh look, she's changed her mind.
Is an abortion OK there? Cause if it's fucking not, then we're on the same goddamned side and you should shut the fuck up.
And I'm saying you should stop pretending your objections aren't about the behavior of women when you constantly spin around and make whether it's ok or not entirely contingent on whether she was raped or not. Get it?
Of course I don't think it's ok to terminate a pregnancy unless there's a medical reason at that stage, because the child would be viable outside the womb. But I don't particularly care about whether you agree with that position or not as much as I find that all too common bit of intellectual dishonesty tremendously annoying.
june gloom on 5/6/2009 at 06:53
Quote Posted by AR Master
Don't get me wrong: I love the idea of killing unwanted babies; it's just that the notion of letting women make a decision doesn't sit well with me
I laughed. Does that make me a bad person?
