oRGy on 12/6/2002 at 00:35

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Why, I would to love to be "playing the fuckin game". Do you think my AMDK6-2 400MHz with its Voodoo3 would handle it though? If you don't, please send donations to the usual address. Or shut up.

About the sweeping generalisations: Please prove me wrong on each one, or quit yer yappin. The difficulty and AI/NPC issues for instance, are very common complaints and I would be extremely surprised if these were not true. Especially considering that the devs have promised difficulty changes in the upcoming patch, if thats just "forum talk", why the patch??!!

<b>Forsythe</b> - the leveling thing isn't just about Morrowind, though. Sorta applies to many games of this type, including Daggerfall. (AND I PLAYED DF TO DEATH SO DONT START). I'm sorta thinking about the ideal systems for "TES IV: Oblivion", really.

Far as I can see traditional DF/MW leveling systems make the gameplay something like this:

1) You start out as gimped version of your character
2) In the mid game, you are in character
3) Nearer the end game, you become a meta character capable of doing everything

This != roleplaying in my mind, I will be interested to check it out properly whenever I do get my hands on MW though and develop my thoughts on this topic. If you think it is, I would offer as a counter example, Baldurs Gate and the AD&D rules. You start as a certain class - fighter, mage, thief, priest etc; and though in the game you can try a "multiclass" change, you stay in character throught the game. The thief character cannot become uber warrior/mage by the end of the game, for instance.

Another point - I was just playing <a href="http://www.aliensoft.com/aliensoft/neika/neika.html">this game</a>, a simple RPG in the zelda style. It really is very simple on the gameplay front (linear, story based no skills apart from combat), but the leveling system is essentially the same as DF/MW, which I find interesting. Ie, leveling is a holdover from these older types of games, and as such needs to be ditched for genre to progress.

I read what you're saying about the other stuff, I'll just say this: prison might make you phsyically weak, but you never forget how to ride a bike.. or something. ;) And I think the plot reason for the fast skill/level progression is more of an excuse to be honest. But hey.. I'll see eventually. ;)

And er, the thread title was quite deliberate. I knew I'd get an interesting current of outraged conservative reaction. :D

<b>Damodred</b>, I agree on the faster machines and various immersive modules needed. Unquestionably MW's AI is too poor to make a mod version of my ideas work properly, and improving the AI, physics, etc to such a level would just cripple systems already groaning under the graphics load, so wisha. Like I said, for TES IV. :)

Speaking of NetHack, I'm playing ADOM (a small bit, the interface/graphics are gruesome) , its a pretty detailed game. Interesting. Might get that updated graphical version of NetHack though tonight..

And er, NetHack doesn't have pretty sunsets, does it? Eh? ;)

oRGy on 12/6/2002 at 01:57

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I have ideaes becaue mie brane si BIG!!11

Just like to point out that Daggerfall started you out as a free person, sent on a voyage by the emperor, but you got shipwrecked. So the prison excuse is just.. an excuse. Not a real reason. ;) In a believable world, getting relearning the advanced tactics you've already learnt would only take a couple of weeks.

<font size=1>Before I forget them this is purely a note for myself:
1) athletics skills
2) better ways of expressing skills
3) what it would look like
4) armor skills, are absurd
5) shifting skill from dice to player generally
6) increased importance of attributes
</font>

Will elaborate a bit more later, maybe even come up with a "design document". And when I mean later, I mean later. Maybe a few days or a week.

Kilana on 12/6/2002 at 02:29

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Well, there sure is alot of stuff here to read, of course I'm not gonna read it all, but I agree with the part about classes shouldnt beable to become masters of something that doesnt fit the class (could just be the eq fanatic part of me). Though you have to keep in mind that this is a single player game. There arent other people in game to compensate for your weakness's, and the game requires you to utilize all your skills. Therefore, I don't think it would be logical for (in this game) class specific skills to be put into effect.

davpod on 12/6/2002 at 09:30

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I have no problem with your 'meta-comments' (as you put it) on leveling in RPGs. If anything, I agree with the bulk of what you're saying about it being a fairly outdated concept. What I do have a problem with are your claims about Morrowind based on what you've read. Complaints about game difficulty especially are notoriously subjective. How am I supposed to 'prove' you wrong on this issue even if you had played the game? All I can say is this: I have played it for a while now and find it moderately challenging. There certainly have been moments where I've got into fights that were too difficult for my current character to handle. But that's just my opinion, and as we all know, you've trawled the Morrowind message boards for hundreds of opinions on game difficulty, right?

There's nothing here for me to prove. I didn't set out to defend the game. I simply intended to highlight the fact that it's kind of ironic that you demand that a person read your entire post before commenting when you can't restrain yourself from making comments about Morrowind before you've even played the game.

oRGy on 12/6/2002 at 23:30

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Relativism bores me, sorry.