Renzatic on 3/11/2009 at 18:06

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It's always bound to happen sooner or later. Difficult clients going against their contract and arguing with us every step of the way. I'm usually well prepared for it, even successfully sued a couple of people for their stubbornness. But this? It goes beyond. I never expected anyone to blatantly lie to me like this and do everything short of physically steal from me.

The story. About 4 months ago I did a midgrade security system for a chain of convenience stores. Nothing difficult, took about a week to do. The original agreement, penned by my partner, was that they were to pay us half up front, then the other half 15 days after each specific store. So far, they've paid us a 3rd up front, and now, 4 months later, have yet to pay for the rest.

They're constantly dissatisfied. Always want cameras moved, always want more cameras added, want a POS system with a nice touch screen, want more ram for the computers...it goes on. At first, I caved in to their demands. Just add it to their bill, I thought. They can pay later. But here we are, 4 months down the road, and they're just giving me lame excuses for not paying me and still demanding more equipment.

Here's the exact situation here. We were contracted for 6 stores, 4 of which we've done, and 2 we're supposed to pick up when ownership is transferred to their company. I have this in writing, with his signature gracing the bottom edge of the contract. For the first month, he said he didn't want to pay until we did all 6 stores so he could get rid of the debt in one lump sum. I didn't particularly like that arrangement, but I went with it. Time has passed, and we still have yet to do the last two stores or get paid for our equipment and labor.

And the labor. Oh my god. I have bent over backwards to satisfy their every whim as cheaply as possible. I even networked their stores together free of charge, something I usually charge $100 per hour for.

But finally, after last week, I'm finally sick of dealing with it. I ask for my money, they say they want 4 more cameras for X location, and I say no. I explain to them that while I'm willing to install the cameras, I'm not willing to add any more to their now substantial tab. They didn't like this at all. AT ALL. They want their cameras immediately, and now they're bitching about my services, which is, coincidently, now their excuse as to why they're not paying me.

Oh, but it gets better. Now they're constantly complaining about their systems. I get a belligerent call at 11 PM one night about how all the cameras are down at location X. I go to investigate the next day, and find someone had killed the power to the system. I turn it on, everything is fine, I add $50 to the bill. The next day, the voice mic isn't working at location Y. I go to investigate...plug it back in. They're now sabotaging their own systems to keep from paying me. Luckily, they're not doing too good a job of it, and everything they've done thus far has been easy to remedy.

So it's come to the point where I am no longer willing to deal with them. Not even an hour ago, I had a very telling conversation with the owner. Told him I'm tired of the excuses, and if I'm not paid within 2 weeks, I'm going to hand it over to the courts and let them deal with it. He obviously wasn't too terribly thrilled by this, and has now taken the last two stores away from us. I explained to him that if he does that I'll just sue him for breach of contract. After all he's put us through, and the amount of time we've given him to pay us, I doubt he'd be able to wiggle his way out of. Specially considering we've already wired one of the stores.

Now after this long, drawn out, and badly written tale, I'm posting here to ask about any contingency that might arise when (and I'm sure it's gonna be when) we take this to court. See, my past two suing experiences have both ended the same. We get our judgement, we demand payment, they don't pay, we get a cop and remove the cameras. Now if this were yet another 3 camera job for some redneck who wants to keep an eye on his prized bulldogs, I'd be fine with that. I could turn that around and still make a profit. But this is 40 odd cameras, 3 POS systems, 4 computers, and countless feet of wire I'm dealing with here. They're now used systems, and I obviously can't turn around and sell them new. If it goes that route, there is nothing I can do to keep from losing a rather hefty amount of time or money.

I want to keep from having that happen. I want to know all my options here in case that arises. And I want to know if anyone here has any advice they can offer me. So far, I've looked into liens against their company. It'd make sense, since they're constantly getting loans to pay for new stores, that would curtail any advancement on their part until they pay me and I release them from it. Unfortunately, I'm not too well versed in liens to know if it's truly a viable option or not.

So...any advice? Anything else anyone can offer me I might've glanced over? :erg:

AxTng1 on 3/11/2009 at 19:19

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I cannot offer any useful advice due to being massively confused. Has this been posted before?

Renzatic on 3/11/2009 at 20:29

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Yeah, in part. I wrote a long rant on the first half of this little saga a few months back, when it was all just beginning.

It's actually a group of owners I'm dealing with here. Most of them are fairly decent people, straight and to the point. But when it comes to any monetary situation, all of them immediately defer to the one gentleman who I'm having so much trouble with. This man is, by and far, about the most brazenly rude and blatantly stupid people I've ever met. I mean here's a guy who claims we haven't come out once since the initial install, despite the fact we have 9 work orders signed...BY HIM...showing otherwise. Who knows we're in good standing with the original owners...who still have a strong foothold in the business. Who knows we know about his "extra income" because he was dumb enough to brag about it to us. And yet, despite all this, he still has the audacity to not only bark demands at me, but get screaming angry at me over any refusal or demands of my own.

I'm proud, and hell, honestly surprised I've managed to maintain my airs of professionalism as long as I have. There is nothing more I'd want than to have one good chew-out session with him. But I know that as soon as I let my temper loose, everything else is forfeit.

Ugh. Damn. I hate excess drama. Specially with stupid people.

demagogue on 3/11/2009 at 23:41

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ugh, this is like a Bar exam question ... It just goes on and on and gets worse and worse, lol. (Not laughing at your situation, just the situation.)

So I gather you're not so worried about winning the contract claim itself -- I mean, it's a pretty clear case, even on the added terms -- it's securing the remedy you're more worried about.

I don't have much experience with this myself, but looking back at what I studied on remedies ... yeah, there's attachment, which puts a lien on their property or even their bank account that stays until they pay you the money damages owed to you ... um, that's the main one to secure a money judgment. (It's a motion you make to the court.) You have to be asking for money damages to do it (not just to get your stuff back).

The main requirement is you can show either it's an out-of-state company or there's a risk they'll remove whatever you want to attach from the state (or conceal it, or restrict it in some way from you being able to get at it) exactly to frustrate enforcing the judgment (i.e., with that intent). You also might be asked to post an undertaking, a bond that compensates them any loss if the attachment ends up being unwarranted.

I don't have any direct experience to know how these things play out, but if you can demonstrate a long history of behavior to frustrate paying you, then you might have a good case for a lien there, that he's going to hide his money so he doesn't have to pay you.

Note that some stuff varies by state. My father tried something like this in Texas, and they wouldn't let him attach a bank account, actually by statute, for whatever reason. So you have to double-check everything for your own state.

Tocky on 4/11/2009 at 03:14

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I'm afraid with banks tightening credit there is going to be more of this type of thing. I don't think I can tell you anything you don't already know though. It's a form of finacial bullying to delay payment, forever if he can get away with it. Everyone who has ever had to collect has had to deal with this type and the screwed up thing is they are often among the most wealthy. Insurance companies are among the worst for claiming lost forms or garbled faxes but I often feel that is for the quarterly interest points as they pay if you are persistent.

With the general public you might get payment if a letter from a law office is sent of notification to take to court but this guy is smart. Notice he didn't damage the equipment, merely another form of harassment. He will delay and take every advantage he can think of because it is cheaper than paying what he owes. I guarantee you aren't the first he has done this to and that is why credit checks with phone conversations are important. I'll bet his partners know exactly what sort of pitbull they are in bed with as well.

Sorry. My boss just folds and writes them off which is exactly what they want and it frustrates me and I can't help. Wish I could. Sic RBJ on them?