Thrangar on 28/8/2002 at 03:51
OK--- first off is there any discription or picture of what the Chimer looked like?(I know who they were)
2nd In the account of the battle at Red mountain,Azura states that"it is your act not mine"(refering to the changing of the Chimer's skin color) that has brought this apon the whole race. Does she mean that she did not cause their skin to turn Black/blue,or does she mean she did not cause it to affect the race as a whole???????????
yes I know the search engine exists and no I refuse to use it it has not worked for me in the past so I will not waist anymore time on it! if you dont want to answer then dont
Striker on 28/8/2002 at 08:10
Vivec is supposed to be Half Chimer (Yellowish)/Half Dunmer(Ashen Grey). Even if he isn't, the original Chimer descended from the Altmer, so I would imagine they would have looked similar to them... although slightly different.
Azura says that it is their action of breaking their oath to her that caused the change. They decided to break the oath, so they chose to be changed.
Of course, it was by her power that the race was altered.
Hope this helps!
-Striker
Forsythe on 28/8/2002 at 08:59
Well, I'll answer because no good answer has been made before on this topic; expect a less polite response if this isn't the case the next time take a similar stance ;)
The Chimer were probably of Altmer heritage, until they split over either ideological or religious points of view (depending on your sources). The book "Varieties of Faith" says this under the description for Azura: "Azura was the god-ancestor that taught the Chimer the mysteries needed to be different than the Altmer." Similarly it says this about Boethial: "Through his illuminations, the eventual 'Chimer', or Changed Folk, renounced all ties to the Aldmer and founded a new nation based on Daedric principles."
For further proof, various dialogue topics ('Altmer', 'native Dunmer culture', etc) hint that the Chimer used to be part of the Altmer culture (if not race). Lastly, Vivec himself is half gold, the color of the Altmer; I know of no proof for whether or not that's because his godhood kept him from becoming wholly Dunmer, or if it's purely cosmetic (he is rather a showoff, no?)
The wording you use is from Vivec's account of the event; I believe that she means that she didn't do anything to cause anyone's skin color to change, and that Vivec & crew did it to themselves and their own race. If Kagrenac could stand a chance of empowering his entire race, it's an easy assumption that Vivec & crew's tinkering, combined with the breaking of their oath, did that to them.
Edit: That's what I get for doing lots of research... blasted Striker beat me to it ;)
Thrangar on 29/8/2002 at 00:43
Thanx guys ,I was thrown into left field ,trying to figure out what was said there!
(he is rather a showoff, no?)"Forsythe"
Well no worse than any one else in the game.My opinion of the gods and the daedra and the almsivi is not one they would appriciate.;) However after talking to old Viv I was wondering why everybody ,well most everybody kills him He wasnt totally repulsive to me?
Forsythe on 29/8/2002 at 01:09
Well, I haven't killed him in my games other than just for sport (and then restored directly after), but here's my reasons why I dislike him so much:
1) First and foremost, he broke his solemn oath, the dying wish of one whom he respected so very highly.
2) Secondly, he's muddled up history as we know it with all those god-awful 'sermons'; even if a scholar attempted to make sense of history from a "Vivec was not born into godhood" point of view, they'd be severely handicapped by just how much crap is out there that buys into Vivec's lies.
3) Vivec did something I find quite ghastly: In his sermons, he turns Nerevar, his Lord and master, the one whom he called 'friend', into some kind of second-fiddle man-at-arms, sending him off on thoroughly silly tasks and having him fail in his tasks unless Vivec 'blesses' him with crackpot-mystic ramblings.
4) If you ask me, Vivec is the one that invented the Temple; most of its miracles are accredited to him. The Temple in turn spawned the Ordinators, and it's been awhile since I've seen a more holier-than-thou and might-is-right bunch of nutballs. Not only that, but they report to him... and therefore have the tacit approval of a god on any and all extremes they may go to.
Hmm... I think I hit all the high points for my taking such a dislike to him, but be sure I'll post more if they occur to me ;)
Thrangar on 29/8/2002 at 13:59
Quote:
Originally posted by Forsythe Well, I haven't killed him in my games other than just for sport (and then restored directly after), but here's my reasons why I dislike him so much:
1) First and foremost, he broke his solemn oath, the dying wish of one whom he respected so very highly.
2) Secondly, he's muddled up history as we know it with all those god-awful 'sermons'; even if a scholar attempted to make sense of history from a "Vivec was not born into godhood" point of view, they'd be severely handicapped by just how much crap is out there that buys into Vivec's lies.
3) Vivec did something I find quite ghastly: In his sermons, he turns Nerevar, his Lord and master, the one whom he called 'friend', into some kind of second-fiddle man-at-arms, sending him off on thoroughly silly tasks and having him fail in his tasks unless Vivec 'blesses' him with crackpot-mystic ramblings.
4) If you ask me, Vivec is the one that invented the Temple; most of its miracles are accredited to him. The Temple in turn spawned the Ordinators, and it's been awhile since I've seen a more holier-than-thou and might-is-right bunch of nutballs. Not only that, but they report to him... and therefore have the tacit approval of a god on any and all extremes they may go to.
Hmm... I think I hit all the high points for my taking such a dislike to him, but be sure I'll post more if they occur to me ;) Actually I wasnt going to respond ,because I have not read the all the books yet ,but you hit on a point thats notable to me.Neverar is actually the only person so far that I have found who's actions show he thinks outside of himself.especially in his deallings with the tools.
Forsythe on 29/8/2002 at 17:41
I hadn't thought about it like that, but you've a point; Veloth might also qualify for that, but we just don't know enough about the guy.
