catbarf on 21/9/2007 at 19:03
I'd like to point out that around 3,000 died from 9/11. Between 90,000 and 140,000 were killed in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And don't give me that 'We were at war' crap, to Al-Quaeda we were at war years ago.
Remember the bombings on the U.S. embassies in Africa?
Quote:
If ever there was an important thing to remember in the last 50 years, it would probably be what happened on September eleventh.
No, it would be landing on the moon, or the first man in space, or the collapse of the Soviet-fucking-Union and the end of the looming threat of nuclear war. 9/11 was a tragedy to the U.S., but give it time and people will forget.
st.patrick on 21/9/2007 at 19:48
Quote Posted by catbarf
...the end of the looming threat of nuclear war...
I wouldn't be hundred per cent sure about that.
Apart from that, point.
catbarf on 21/9/2007 at 20:05
Quote Posted by st.patrick
I wouldn't be hundred per cent sure about that.
Apart from that, point.
True, the threat is not totally gone. But at least we don't have the two world superpowers with their fingers over the big red buttons, ready for MAD any day.
Dia on 21/9/2007 at 22:06
Quote Posted by catbarf
9/11 was a tragedy to the U.S., but give it time and people will forget.
First of all; though 9/11 happened in the US, it was a world-wide tragedy. There were victims from over 90 other countries ((
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/img/assets/4756/9_11onepager1.pdf)), so how can you possibly make an idiotic statement like that?
I strongly doubt people will forget that day.
Quote Posted by catbarf
I'd like to point out that around 3,000 died from 9/11. Between 90,000 and 140,000 were killed in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
So; if there weren't X number of deaths then it wasn't a true tragedy? It's not a competition of which tragedy was the worst because more people were killed in this or that one. The tragedies of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and all the other terrible wars and horrendous events are not negated or lessened by 9/11. Granted, there have been numerous tragedies throughout history; and 9/11 is the latest on that unfortunate list.
catbarf on 21/9/2007 at 22:30
My point is that you, along with so many others, make statements like '9/11 was the worst atrocity ever', et cetera. The average person alive today will rank 9/11 higher than the American Civil War on the list of atrocities. This is my point- yes, it was a devastating attack, resulting in many lives lost. However, it is by far not the worst thing to ever happen to the U.S., and in fifty or one hundred years will just be a footnote as further impetus for the war in Iraq.
mopgoblin on 21/9/2007 at 23:21
Quote Posted by Dia
Granted, there have been numerous tragedies throughout history; and 9/11 is the latest on that unfortunate list.
What about AIDS? Even an optimistic (meaning low) estimate has it causing over 6000 deaths in an average day. Motor vehicle accidents cause over 3000 deaths in the average day. Over the last six years, that adds up to about 4800 and 2400 World Trade Centre attacks respectively - apparently this isn't a tragedy, though. America barely does anything to remember these people, or to try to prevent these millions of deaths from happening. Who would argue that these lives were of lesser value that those ended by the attacks? Why then are they not deserving of the same remembrance?
Dia on 22/9/2007 at 00:58
Quote Posted by catbarf
My point is that
you, along with so many others,
make statements like '9/11 was the worst atrocity ever', et cetera.
Please show me where I made that statement; to my knowledge I never did. You shouldn't quote what hasn't been said. It damages your credibility.
Quote Posted by mopgoblin
What about AIDS? ..... America barely does anything to remember these people, or to try to prevent these millions of deaths from happening. Who would argue that these lives were of lesser value that those ended by the attacks? Why then are they not deserving of the same remembrance?
As far as my remark about 9/11 being the latest on the list of major tragedies, I wasn't considering epidemics. I agree that more should be done
worldwide (AIDS is not just an 'American' disease) in not only finding a cure, but in making people aware of the methods of prevention of contracting and spreading AIDS. I never said, nor did I mean to imply that the lives of those people who died of AIDS were of lesser value than any other lives lost in any other tragedy.
I was only trying to point out that 9/11 shouldn't be considered as the 'ultimate' tragedy to end all other tragedies'. Yes; I firmly believe the victims (and their survivors) should be remembered, as should victims and survivors of all other tragedies. One tragedy does not lessen another because of the number of people that died. I was not trivializing the lives of victims of other tragedies because of my stand on remembering the victims of 9/11.
Gingerbread Man on 22/9/2007 at 01:33
How many people currently letting their hearts bleed all over the lovely lavender and cream of these forums can honestly and without a twinge of doubt say that they actually care as much as they profess? I know it's shocking and whatnot when someone says what BEAR said, but isn't he right? Are people honestly and genuinely and deeply distressed by the suffering (however long or brief) of complete strangers in places that are either so distant or so abstract?
I mean, I think that what goes on in Sierra Leone and Sudan and several other exceptionally-grim areas of Africa is just gut-wrenching. I've heard first-hand tales that made me feel very ill. But in the end, if we're being honest here, it doesn't affect me much after the initial visceral contemplation. It becomes academic. It becomes removed and abstract. And it becomes, by virtue of getting hammered over the head with it for years and years, utterly boring. Holocaust, WTC, Khmer Rouge... at some point doesn't it all get put in the same mental bucket as Masada, Herculaneum, and the Russian front of WW2?
Shit, has anyone here even thought in the past week of the tsunami that happened three years ago?
I'm pretty sure the weeping kinda cheapens it for the people who were directly affected.
Kaleid on 22/9/2007 at 01:47
Quote Posted by Dia
First of all; though 9/11 happened in the US, it was a world-wide tragedy. There were victims from over 90 other countries ((
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/img/assets/4756/9_11onepager1.pdf)), so how can you possibly make an idiotic statement like that?
I strongly doubt people will forget that day.
It's not idiotic.
"95 percent of Americans questioned in the poll do remember the month and the day of the attacks, according to Wednesday's edition of the Washington Post. But when asked about the year, 30 percent could not give a correct answer." (
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_221191929.html)
There you go. United states of Amnesia..
Dia on 22/9/2007 at 01:54
I was referring to cb's implication that 9/11 was a tragedy to the US alone.
